Probate Real Estate Business 10-Year Roadmap | Probate Coaching #6

All right. Welcome everybody to the probate mastery, weekly group coaching call. We had a good conversation going before we hit the recordings. We’ll pick up a pickup there. Everybody was talking about the market sentiment and how this cannot be a bubble at all. And it has to be healthy. And a buyer’s agent has to be a fiduciary when they when they tell their buyer to sign an addendum, that if the appraisal comes in low, it’s the appraiser’s fault, not the market, because the value is obviously there.

[00:00:26] So Eric, you had something,  I didn’t really have to, we were talking about prior to the call starting, but I’ve noticed a major difference in conversations with people who are just starting probate and their reluctance to even let us like, get a couple of words in, versus the people that are already starting to experience the attorney or the people that they thought were going to help that aren’t helping is, other than just becoming better versed in, in finding my voice, is there anything that I can do to reference, I know the feel felt found and I’ve used things like you sound like many of my past clients it’s.
It seems like the only people that I’m truly able to help are the people that have already sold the real estate. And now we can help them file that last tax return, meet with an advisor. But truly there’s nothing prior to I only get paid when we buy or refer real estate over for a listing and I’m glad to help, build my impression on helping people.
But I’ve clearly noticed a major difference in the people that are just starting in Nope, got it. All covered. Attorneys taken care of everything versus the people like, Oh my gosh, this attorney is driving me nuts. He’s not doing anything. He gave me my first bill. It’s crazy. Is there anything I can do too better address that, without squandering the attorney industry?
Sure. So I’ll start with the bad news and that is you’re going to fail 96% of the time. Yeah, so we can’t help everybody. Not everybody needs our help. Some people are more, they’re more savvy and more connected and they don’t need a network because they have one. And that was something early on.
I was holding, I’ve always held a 6% conversion rate from right out of the gate. And I would beat myself up every time I got shut down. Cause I’m like, damn it I’ll let that one go. Or they didn’t need me. I didn’t say the right thing until one day I added a little bit of a paradigm shift and I’m like wait a minute, you have a 94% failure rate, even though you’re killing it, like with a 6% conversion rate.
So don’t take that. So personally right now, I still take it as a challenge. Like why not make 6%? Some of our members are converting at 25, 30%. That’s fantastic. And I don’t ever lead with that as an expectation. Because it’s, it just wouldn’t be realistic for everybody, but some new things like a question, like what market are you in?
Eric  Michigan. So probate takes what, probably nine to 12 months on average for most families roughly.  So the open, the creditors period is only four months and measure. Why does it take nine months?  Just as people don’t have their ducks in a row, they, they don’t really have any, they don’t have any direction.
So think about what your question is and your language, but a question that you can interrupt their pattern and to make them think, Oh, maybe I don’t know everything is well, as I’m sure your attorney told you, Mr. Smith, a probate in Michigan typically takes most families nine to 12 months, but it can be done in as little as four.
So why do you think it takes so long?  Not to be insulting to you, but most people in the first one, two, three, four, sometimes even beyond five and six months, they don’t accomplish a whole lot of anything. It’s a whole lot of I should, I could, I would. And they should all over themselves until they realize they’re in over their head.
And that’s oftentimes where we get the call to come in and help. And I’m sure you can think of other industries and other situations where people will behave that way.  One thing I try to do is touch base with every family early in the process. So I know of at least on my part to make you on the end of the average, that shortens the average and our market.
Because if I can help you accomplish this in four to five months sooner, how many thousands of dollars do you think that will save your family? So you guys get it in a distribution. You don’t give it out as an expense line and a year from now. So then after, when you ask questions like that, you silence as your labor, like just you set yourself up and then shut up and let them sit.
Like their wheels will turn for a bit. And then they’ll a lot of times they’ll just They’ll tell you the real story and you’ll get the real emotion behind the behavior of procrastination. And a lot of times it’s all fear-based it’s they don’t know where to start. They don’t have, they don’t want to empty out the closets.
That’s the sentimental value attached to personal property or a sister being a bitch, or you’ll start to get the real story. Then you have something to work with. That’s called engagement, right? Play the play that social enterprise card I’ve listened. We built this service and the community. And even at the risk of offending, some people we reach out early, so we can try to speak to everybody because we watched a lot of families go nine to 12 months of carrying costs, insurance, everything else, and cost the family, thousands of dollars.
And the other thing, if you’ve got a strong personality, you can turn that up and say, and I don’t know if the attorney explained this to you, but in the eyes of the law, you’re a fiduciary of the state. And as a family member were to disagree with your actions and hold you accountable.
And I actually go to an attorney as a plaintiff and Sue you, they could add up all over the accounting, all the holding costs and actually point that at you in a probate litigation and you have real legal liability. Now, I don’t think it’ll go there. It rarely does. Especially in cultures like we have here at Michigan, however, it there’s real exposure that we see a lot of families not even be aware of in

[00:05:39] fed.
Go ahead and jump in. I think you had something to add. I was just going to say I was just talking to Bruce when he was doing one of his foundation classes and he brought something else up where in that type of situation he also said suggested, I, and I’ve done it. And it actually worked it works more often than not where you just say, it, it sounds like you’re not looking for any help right now.
So you’re not saying it’s, it sounds like you don’t need, you’re not saying the word need. You’re saying it sounds like you’re not looking for any help right now. And then you just say, just in case that changes in the future, do you mind if we stay in touch and more often than not, they tend to say yes.
And then from there, right when, you say, can I give you my name and number? Even if, whether they take it or not, then you say before I give you my name and number, do you mind if I ask, as the family leaning more towards selling the real estate or keeping it, or, something along those lines, so you, at least you stay engaged.
I found that for me, that’s worked keeping the door open. Yeah. Because I agree that if I call a newer lead more often than not, they do tend to just shut you out. That it’s almost like they don’t even have a guard up there. Just the second they pick up, they’re already jabbing at you. So you’re just like, Whoa, Whoa.
You know what I mean? They wouldn’t even get, let you get a word in. I finally, I found that was helpful.

[00:07:03] So another thing that we found interesting, we also have a team that drives for dollars and we’re able to find a lot of vacant houses that are pre probate. So they haven’t really began the process and a conversation with my probate attorney yesterday.
I discovered in Michigan, there’s a difference between petitioning for probate and an application for probate. And I pulled up both applications today, fill them out completely. I can’t really notice a difference between the two processes and I plan to research this fully. Is there anything that you know about the difference between a petition and an application?
I would assume one probably lock somebody into a certain way of reporting things. Have you ever heard of anything like that, Chad, the difference between a petition and an application to begin probate? I’m aware of the two documents. I’m not a hundred percent sure on the difference, but I think it’s who is actually filing the document.
So if you are a known executor, if you’re a name than the will, then you’re petitioning to probate the will. If you, if there is no will that’s intestate, then you’re applying to probate a will. It’s that’s my looking to see if John Fraker was on here, but they are, both of those documents are used for the initial.
I don’t think it changes the process. I think it’s just a different document to delineate who, what the relationship to the estate is. Petitioner, I believe is the person named in the will. So they petition for probate and then an application could be submitted by anyone. And it’s something I’ve seen done in the Denver market.
Investors, I’m not, I am not condoning those or proposing anyone, go do it. Investors will actually take that list and flush to flush them out. They’ll go, they’ll apply for probate and in that County and get them self appointed and then reach out to the family or get a, or they’ll just randomly choose a family member from a skiptrace and get that person appointed and then reach out to it.
And then they don’t even know they, the executors I’ve seen it, I’ve seen that happen twice and they actually sold the house to them. And we figured it out after the fact, but they had no idea that they were even named as the administrator, until they, until the investor called them to make them an offer.
And he was so bold as to put them in probate. Now for me, I would have never done business with that dude. Yeah, that’s pretty bold.

[00:09:24] And then lastly, I just I have a question here is Steve has really been helping us light up the phones with some with some inbound calls that have been coming back.
And what I’ve actually found is I feel more comfortable or that I’m actually making better progress when I’m, when we do a voicemail drop and they’re calling back and we’re just leaving a kind of a general message, just say, Hey, this is Eric, call me back. And we find that they’re absolutely clueless and they shut us down even faster than when we reach out to them and are able to it’s almost like they’re expecting that this is a solicitation and they’re just like armed and ready to just like, Nope, we’re not interested.
So while I love getting inbound calls, is there a way to better? And again, I know we can’t sell anything on. You’re never going to convert anybody on a voicemail. Is there a way to better qualified people? So they have some idea of what this is about. So they’re not absolutely clueless. And, to let them know that we’re a little bit sincere and able to help.
I think so. You’re are you using the voicemail courier or you’re using a live ISA service? My live callers that are doing voicemail drops. Okay. So that’s the voicemail courier. They’re not actually trying to have dialogue. They are they are calling it’s not the voicemail carrier they are calling.
And then they’re only getting through to so many people and just doing a voicemail drop, but it’s not the courier service. Got you. So they’re trying to make the dialogue connection, but it’s not, they’re dropping the voicemail.
Gotcha. Soften your offer. Actually let me hear that recording. Like you can just, you don’t have to play it. You can just say it, get close and give you a, literally I took it right off of one of your last one of the calls that we’re in like verbatim. I can tell you exactly what it says right here.
And it takes two to two.
Hold on, buddy. I’m going to call, give me one second. Okay.
Hello. My name is Eric. I sent you a letter last week and just wanted to be sure that you received it, make you under share why I sent it. Please give me a call back at (586) 745-0187. When you have a moment, thank you and make it a great day. Okay, let’s switch it up. That, that’s the one that served me and I’ve tested dozens, but in your market if you’re, there are cultural differences everywhere.
And if you’re encountering people who are guarded let’s reword it and pitch it as more of a social enterprise and Crowley say, Hey, what are you doing this under a brand name? Settle your estate. Okay, perfect. Hey, this is Eric from settle your state. We’re a social enterprise right here in grand Rapids.
We try to reach out to every family that’s going through probate each month. So we actually visit the clerk. She lets us know who we should be trying to help. And I was just calling to see if we could set up a time where I can show you what resource, what resources are available to you. My number is five five five one two three four, and then get off the phone.
Beautiful, but pitch it as a social enterprise in the community and see what. Yeah, you’re, you may be coming up against your own culture, right? And people want to do business with people, especially in markets like that. So give that a shot and pitch it as a social enterprise. I just wanted to get you your free call and let you know what resources are available in the community.
Soften that up a bit and then just wrap it up quickly and see how that’s going to work for you. I think you’re going to get a different result. I will definitely add that and let you guys know how that works out for us. And I’ve truly found that when I let people know right off the bat, I’m not an attorney.
I’m not a realtor. It takes that guard and drops it down so much. And I am working on getting licensed. So that’s going to have to change. I was licensed for five years and then dropped it. It just depends. You just because you have a license does not mean you have to disclose that on the front end until you discuss price terms or, anything that’s relevant to a specific property.
A lot of people disclose too soon. And these in a more fragile conversation divorce, foreclosure, probate, and until you like start talking about price and terms, you don’t have to do that. If you, if it’s a marketing message that you do, but if it’s prospect, then you don’t have to disclose that you’re just Eric.
So don’t worry about it on the front end, build rapport, get engagement. And then whenever you I disclosing the appointment, as you saw in session three of mastery. When I disclosed that I had, even at the time four licenses it is right before I get into the strategy in the last 30 minutes of the, the appointment.
Now, if your broker, as has a different opinion than me, but I’ve just been talking about houses and people, we haven’t talked prices, terms, anything like that. So that’s, I disclosed once they trust me and they’re engaged and I have rapport and I’m looking at them in the eye, that’s what I worry about that.
And when someone tries to get it out of me, they’re like what’s your company name? And I’m like, wow, a lot of companies, which one. But and I’m like listen, we have a lot of them talk about, and there’s questions that I’m going to ask before. I know exactly how I can help you and which company that might come through.
Or even if it’s one of my companies, I don’t know. Why do you ask? And I’ll put the burden back on them and then they’re like they’re doing it by default because they’ve figured out that if they can get, a Remax agent to say this is Joe Smith from Rema Remax.
One, two, three, ABC red balloon real estate. And we’re the best brokerage in all of grand Rapids, Michigan. Haven’t you heard then they’re used to people putting that company identity up there and it just becomes a useless conversation. It’s not dialogue. And then they eventually wear them down and they run out of things to say, and it got them off the phone.
So interrupt that and be different. Just say, Oh, actually, you know my name’s Eric, I’m not sure which company I have. I have several. And I even had a lot of our solutions aren’t even under my leadership. So let’s figure out how we can help you. And then we can have that conversation.
Fair enough. Or I don’t, wrap that up and just say, I’m not sure which company, or if it’s even 100, my leadership that wasn’t important to you. I just seem to get hung up. I just seem to get hung up on less. When I say I’m not an agent, I’m not an attorney, at least they’re at least they’re willing to, to hear us out a little bit on it.
What I’m saying, I’m not like I’m saying when you have a license, you don’t you can still do that. You indirectly imply that, which is, it’s not really deceitful. It’s a tactical conversation. So you don’t have to highlight that I’m a realtor. You don’t necessarily have to explicitly say, I’m not a realtor, but you can say, listen I have, I do a lot of different things.
We help a lot of families in a lot of different ways. Sometimes that’s through company, a, B, C, or D. I like to first get to know who I’m talking to and what their challenges might be. Then we can decide, which hat I’m wearing. Does that sound good? All right. The first question I have is this the first time you’ve ever done this?
Because it can be really overwhelming the first time. Yes. And go right for the emotion. Yes. And you just sidestep that whole thing and you take away that professional conversation with a personal conversation, an emotional conversation. And then they’re thinking down a whole different lab, like when they were asking people, how many deals did you do?
How, what’s your commission, all those questions that don’t matter, but people have the habit of asking. We want to leave them away from that and show them that we’re making it an emotional conversation. We’re compassionate, we’re empathetic. And we are the solution to all your problems. I will let you know how that works out for us.
Thank you. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for always coming here and ask, like asking grandpa and fed jumped in with good advice.

[00:16:31] Anyone else that has anything to share with Eric? Please step up. Absolutely. It sounds correct me if I’m wrong. Sounds like maybe the approach you were referring to right now is something that could also maybe be used in general for expired.
So not necessarily just for probate. Sure. Absolutely. You’re just a service provider. And I like the word social enterprise, because for me, that’s really what I look at. Even this company to me is a social enterprise. I love you guys. I love helping you, but really the impact I’m making is not on you. It’s through you because I look at the way this is a way I can scale to help hundreds of thousands of families each year.
So for me, it is a social enterprise and I just happen to have a lot of fun doing it, but it’s, and this particular company, it’s not coming to me anyways. It’s all being given away. But present it that way and you can use different words, different terms if you want. There’s even a letter.
I included in it’s part of all the leads it’s in their library, but I wrote it for the Colorado Springs market and it’s called the probate social enterprise letter and the whole front page doesn’t even talk it’s a distracting letter, which is, the point. To make it very different and then you flip it over and on the back, they have their options for real estate.
Starting with option one, do nothing. And so for the consequences option to turn it into a family, rental, suffer those consequences. And as they go down line, it starts to slowly introduce the real estate service. But yes, any, anything you can do to differentiate yourself, especially in a market like this, where, we’ve got, I don’t know if we’re at all time high number of licenses issued, but we’re pretty close, right?
Like we were talking about before the recording started, this is smelling a whole lot, like 2006, seven. So anything we can do to not be typical will help us. And so it’s, I guess I really develop this approach in short sales and REO. Is where I learned it. And because I’ve never worked with anyone so closed up as an owner and default Mike and nod.
If they’re 90 days behind, they’ve got that collectors calling, they’ve got attorneys calling, they’ve got realists, selfish, real estate agents, calling investors are looking through their damn windows while they’re trying to do homework with their kids. You laugh, but it’s true. When you show up on an ODI list, guys will come look through your damn windows and.
Cause they, assume that it’s vacant and people feel threatened and guarded. So that’s probably the hardest list I’ve ever worked. And a short sale is, it’s if you’ve ever done those at scale, it’s a hell of a lot of work. Like you’re putting yourself in front of a lot of problems and pain.

[00:19:04] But I learned to unlock, I learned to, to navigate that conversation using this approach, like we, we are reaching out as a community service. And it was I found that I think the easiest business in the world to get as a short sale now, and it’s not the easiest to process. I think this is the easiest process, but I was able to so I just, so you know, I’d never lifted a house in my life.
And Jim told me he was doing short sales and I’m like, Oh, hell, I’ll try, I’ll pull the list of, I just went to Craig’s list and started looking at homeowners who had expired. And and then I referenced that with an ODI list and I would just call them. And within one week I had 12 fricking listings and I didn’t even have signs.
I’m like, Oh God, what am I going to tell them? Cause they they’re like why didn’t you bring a sign with you? I’m like, ah, yeah, I ran out, like I got a guy print them now and I’m like, I don’t even have a design for it. But it was like, because I approached it differently than everyone.
So Eric fed, I cut my teeth on this methodology, short sales, and it was extremely effective. Took it into fisbos, expired that kind of this use it.
Speaking of or just expire. So I’m actually bullying after an nod sights, ironic that you brought that up. It’s literally right in front of me. So in to pay your damn bills fed. You mean you’re sitting in it? No. It’s right here. It’s just I’m just trying to figure out how to approach.
Cause obviously in general, expireds tend to be a little aggressive, obviously, because they’re getting a ton of calls every day. Fine. Fair. In addition to that, I guess maybe there’s an element of embarrassment for someone who’s in a nod. Therefore, yeah, I was. So I would think that maybe even if we don’t necessarily bring up that word it or anything like that there may be, they may be a little more reserved just from the embarrassment because in their head they feel like everyone knows.
What would you say? So you’re calling and, hi, I’m trying to reach right. Chad ring. Oh, hello. I’m trying to reach bed. Who’s this? I said, my name’s Chad Corbett. This is fed, right? Yes, sir. Okay. Listen, I’m calling, I actually looked at your number up on the internet. That’s why I was trying to see, I didn’t find the listing for you and white pages.
The reason I’m calling is probably the same reason. You’ve talked to a lot of other people, but this is a different conversation. I understand that this could be an embarrassing time for you. But I’ve helped a lot of families not be embarrassed and in your situation. So I really wanted to see if there’s any way I can help you.
Like I said, it’s probably not a conversation you would expect, but the first thing I’ll ask is, because you’re in default, what would you rather me help you keep your home and find a way to stay there or find a way to have as little credit damage and emotional damage as possible. I’m strongly loading.
I’m purposely talking too much because I don’t want you to use what you’ve used. I don’t want what you’ve used on others to be effective on me. And I will walk right over top of you if you try to interrupt me. But if you’re interested, you’ll stick in there like that part of your brain, that curiosity that’s building in your brain, like what the hell does this guy think he is?
And I’m going to ask you really emotional question. Would you rather stay in your home and work this out? So you guys don’t have to move or is there, would you rather me minimize the reputational risk and the damage and the financial damage? And I’m bringing that negative statement to the top.
What I find I’ve never worked with anyone who procrastinates and Rick gets reclusive as much as an nod and the ones that really kill me, where I would really put pressure on them is when I know there’s equity in the asset. And they’re trying to, they’re trying to, you ever seen the meme where, or the gift where Homer Simpson like steps back and fades into the Bush?
Yeah. Like they all try to do that for me. It’s man, we’re talking about tens of thousands of dollars and tens of 10, 20, 30, 40, 80 points off of your credit score that I can save. If I can short sale this versus you putting your head in the sand and this go onto the steps and your neighbors are going to be a lot less pissed that that house didn’t sit there with, 18 inch tall grass all summer.
So that’s the way I always entered those. There’s a path that I follow on every single nod. Would you like to keep the home or do you what’d you like to move on and I’ll present it different ways if, depending on how the conversation is going, but it’s and let me see if I can pull something up here.
I have a mind map, but I don’t think I’ve shared with you guys in the course, but I will right now the way my, my logical mind thinks when I’m going through an emotional conversation. Okay.
Rosie. Yes. I know Dee is noticed depo.
Okay. Can you guys see a mind map on my screen now? Yes, sir. All right. So this is for mod, for probate, anything like that. So this is how my brain processes, this is how the transaction engineering goes on in my head. So the conversation passes is the real estate. Yes or no, if yes. Is there a motivation to sell?
And this is where we hit the nod, right? So we know there’s real estate, but is there a motivation to sell or is there a motivation to keep if there’s not, if they don’t want to sell, then are the payments current? Yes or no. If the payments are current and they don’t want to put them in your sphere of influence and nurture them, if the payments are not current and they don’t want to sell you pretty much have a loan mud situation, if you want to get them to their outcome, you could suggest a sort of short sale, but that doesn’t get them to their ideal outcome. So a loan modification and those change with each part each time, the market corrects if they do say, yeah, we’d like to move on. Then the next question is, do we have equity or not?
And if there’s yes, equity, then we know what’s the target date. And if it’s inside of a 30 day period, make them a cash offer 60 to 90 days, we can probably get it done conventionally if it’s long-term and they want to absolutely maximize price and sometimes minimize taxation, then we’ll go to these creative financing strategies.
If there is no equity, same thing. We’re going to anchor from the target day. And if it’s less than 30 days, we don’t have time. We’ve got to get it and turn it into a rental and get the damn payments made. Otherwise you’re going to lose it. One to six months we can probably pull off a short sale and longterm.
We can go creative financing and actually let the tenant pay down the mortgage and raise the equity level. But this is how I look at every conversation, regardless of the lead type. This is the mind map that I’ve just cognitively bill over time. And I just recently actually put that into a mind-map, but, so that’s what I would say is think about what that looks like for you when you get on the phone, like where do you want them to go logically.
And then go back and apply your emotional language. Good question that. So would you like, listen, I know you’re getting a lot of pressure. I have one question. We have a social enterprise here in the community that’s set up to help people minimize credit damage or stay in their homes. So would you rather keep the home and stay, or should I find a way for you to get rid of the home and minimize the damage?
There’s only two options. Pick one, like what are they going to say? How do you skirt, how do you skirt out of that other than hanging up?
It sounds like we could also use the same or a variation of that intro. With an expired. Is that correct? Can you that with anyone? And that’s I believe the mind map I just showed you could be built into one of the most successful real estate coaching organizations anyone’s ever built.
Something that simple, just the methodology of letting, letting that the customer experience journey, that, that map designing your language around that, not what you think needs to be said or what some damn guests said on YouTube. And I’m one of those damn guys on YouTube, but like I firmly believe I’ve used it on every list I’ve ever worked.
I’ve used the same exact methodology. And I just I just started paying attention to how people react, what the objections were. And I hate being rejected. Like we all do. We’re salespeople. Like you can grow thick skin, you can tolerate it. But I sure as hell don’t like it, even though I can tolerate it.
So I was like, how do I create a system where no is not an option? Like you can’t help me is not an option. And that and I think at first I did that to build self-confidence right, because I wanted to know when I picked up the phone, nobody can tell me that I can’t help them. And I know that I can always monetize that.
So that, that taught me, it gave me the confidence to know, regardless of what list I was calling or what lists the inbound call came from. I knew I had a solution. And you saw on the end of that mind map, if you count up, each of those are unique strategies. I had 14, 15 unique strategies. Like I’ve yet to see a house that I couldn’t fit through there.
And I actually helped them and monetize it. And I can send you guys that I’ll send you a link to that, but. Yes. It works for any of your lists. It even works for sphere of influence. Are you ready to, do you own a home? Are you ready to do, what would you like to sell it or stay in it? Even building, like one of the things is building rentals.
If you want to do property management, if you do, I would recommend you find a counselor to add to your team because you need one. Just getting for all your property rental people, like I’m a personality type to be a property manager. But yes, I’ll send you that link and you can really use it on anything and everything.
Yeah. I was asking, cause I do agree with w with Eric, I really have never liked the approach when I call any type of lead where I say, hi, this is with ABC Realty. It’s it’s like you’re teeing it up for them to swing and it’s, I just never liked that. So I think your version is a lot smoother and it’s just, it’s one of those things.
And I have a soapbox rant for many things brokerage, but it’s one of those bad habits that was established. I’ll say this, the culture has shifted and changed very much since the 1950s. And I’m sure that was very effective in the 1950s. The problem is a lot of real estate training is decades beyond where the consumer culture has moved to.
And it’s a lot like the school system. We do educate, we give people great education in public schools for 20 years ago, but they come out into the workforce and we’re not preparing them for the information economy. And the sales training is often like that too. We prepare, like we take a guy that was a master in 1983 at selling this and he couldn’t be shut down, but we’ve had a massive cultural shift through the, the information age it’s, people are just different and they see that like their privacy’s invaded around every corner you’re being retarded and people just are different and they don’t.
The brand loyalty is not what it used to be. Like with, within our industry, at least with some things that stronger, but in, in small business and real estate financial services, insurance it’s more about convenience and like how quickly they can get what they want, that instant gratification and solving their problems.
And so yeah, there’s sorry. I’ve got three thoughts going at the same time. There’s a really good book that I don’t it’s on the reading list. It’s called. They ask you answer. Have you read that? Not yet. I do have it though. I’m glad to put that on the top fear lists because it like it’s an inbound marketing book, but it also will help you.
When I first read that book, Jen Bailey was on this call. She suggested it to me. She’s you’re going to love this. The author is, and ironically he’s in Northern Virginia, not too far from where I am, but the way he was, he had a pool company and he, a lot of what he teaches Yeah, cat a cat just dropped it for you, Rosie.
They ask you answer. And it’s actually a good audio book. If you like audio. I, it’s not, it’s more story than reference, so it’s a good audio book. But anyway, that book validated a lot of the things that we’ve talked about here today, it’s really being empathetic to their position. Seth Goden is another really good person to follow for this type of, if you believe in this type of prospecting and the most recent stuff, go ahead and book that I’ve picked up as this is marketing, and it’s a really good book.
And it basically says the same thing that we’re talking about here. It’s do something with real purpose and you’ll be proud to present it as a solution. Not saying there’s a chance, maybe you see real estate, the number one, brokerage, and all of Roanoke.
How do you spell set’s last name? G O D I N. Oh, go again. All right, cool. Thank you. Appreciate it.

[00:31:29] Next up Rosie yes. See you have a hand up. How are you today?
I’m really good. Chad, how are you? I’m good. So you have the best webcam I’ve ever seen anywhere, and I’ve talked to thousands of people on this, so we need to know what it is.
It’s not a webcam, it’s actual camera. And it’s just that I don’t want to change every time I’m recording or no. It’s I love it. Like it’s different. You, so tell us how you configure that your USB tethered to an actual DSLR or. Yes. So I will give you the most easiest terms. My husband is the main one behind it.
It’s Sony is 6,600 or 6,100 and the SDMI and another USB coming out of it to ATM mini, which is the actual equipment between the main camera and my desktop. So I’m able to project the video and the camera into the desktop camera. So you need an eight, 10 mini as a device between the camera this time.
 It really, it differentiates you. I know you’re sitting behind good glass because you’ve got like those beautiful Boca and the BA you got really good depth of field and really sharp foreground. You’re an overachiever in everything you do, Rosie, you know what you just said? It’s If we do everything with an intention of an outcome, then we can award a lot of hiccups, and quite frankly, last December when we were wondering on how to go about probate and really reestablish ourselves through COVID, you guys were having some really good conversations and I was taking notes. You’re right, Chad, like in today’s market we as realtors, we got to distinguish ourselves just from simple buy and sell because everybody is about convenience and instant gratificationAnd I had that concern seven years ago when I got into real estate, because market was so hot, but I was going around and asking realtors who have been doing it for long enough. I said, how do you survive in the bad markets? Okay, I’m going to be good in the good market, but when the tide goes down, that’s when you know who’s doing naked, so I didn’t want to be a blinded by good market. And you’re absolutely right. The second one where they don’t have equity and all the six options. If we, as a realtor can become aware of it, we can become irreplaceable as well in this market. Still that’s all camera came in and it wasn’t an investment for the sec.
Forced. I’m not going to hesitate from seeing that. But I think any investment is only a risk. If we are not willing to hold our dollar accountable for the investment we are making. So we were serious about recording and I’m sure you guys are seeing that we are releasing videos listing profiles on our marketing.
You’re doing an amazing job with video. I honestly have my whole sphere of influence with realtors. You’re one of the top three and video. Yeah you took the challenge and ran with it. And I’ve been doing video to sell real estate since 2006. When WebEx launched their first webinar platform I got this logic tech camera and some kind of dongle hook into my computer and my phone.
And I was literally like, I held recorded webinars in 2006. I don’t even remember where I learned all this stuff, but I let every sales team, because I was selling remote to people who were five, 600 miles away. And I’ve used video. I built my whole career on video. So I’m really happy to see you doing it.
I’m shocked at how few people do video. And there’s still a ton of opportunity.  Cox grant Cox isn’t here today. His grandfather passed away, but grant took the challenge seriously and he has, he’s done incredibly well. And I know like you obviously know him, you guys are helping each other, but you guys learn from these folks, learn from grant Cox, learn from Rosie, learned from folks who are leveraging the power of video.
And Rosie and grant are kinda quietly in the background working on some stuff that we’re vetting out for the rest of you guys, but like, how can we scale this? How can we hand you the video blueprint to unlock it in your market? And then all you have to do is buy the camera and follow the model. But Yeah I hadn’t said anything.

[35:37] I was really curious. Wow, you’re getting such good quality. But it’s noticeable that you didn’t stand up to talk about that. How can we help you Rose? I was the section raising my hand when you guys were asking what splits we use. It’s actually very similar to what you guys are saying.
We, you made it very simple straight to the point as off the timing and resources. We want you to get as many Northern to the belt to truly understand how probate leads think. And some of the things that have really helped me get to the point are like, once somebody, we introduce ourselves, we simply disclose you probably already have a probate attorney working with you right now, is that right?
So that way they’re not going to say our attorney hang up, so if you acknowledge that, then they know when you disclose, we’re not calling you to help you with the probate process because they’re probably thinking that they’re marketing with the probate process. And once they accept they’ve given me a little bit of their time.
That I sent you say my husband and I we do this work as a service for our community and we want to make sure you’re making the best decision around real estate. Has your attorney provided you or offered you some help in that matter? And that’s when they’re like, Oh, that’s where the art really happens.
Had they had the conversation about real estate with attorney? Oh, that’s really that’s really good language, Rosie. Thank you. And that will tell us where they’re really in the probate process. Sometimes people don’t even understand what literal testamentary is. So maybe reading a book like this one right here, the executors handbook.
I would say, just read the first three chapters and then skip through a real estate chapter. Between that your conversations with your leaves will change significantly. And then when they say, yeah, they kind of stall, I personally don’t try too hard because we know businesses and follow up, right?
So we simply get to the point and say, Hey, as weeks are, as weeks and months go by, things might get overwhelming. And in case you feel stuck, I want you to say my number on your speed dial, because we want to make sure, since you have given us your time, you’ve been generous with it as a thank you to you.
I want to make sure you’re making the best decision. Would that be fair? She said. And then at the end he would ask me, so how much do you charge? I said I would have to know what, how to, what extent you need our help for. And they’re asking me this question, how much do you charge? It means there’s something I said to them that they found of value.
And that’s the only time people become curious about price. So I simply ask for a followup date, that’s it. And the follow-up call is either we’re attorneys stalling. Or second conversation would be a lot of investors would be calling them. So I just want to make sure, you don’t think I’m another investor trying to call you.
We help people with the best decision around the state and that’s it. And after that, we plugged them into our video emailing and the interviews we have done with probate attorneys and our email campaign. And that’s all the effort. And another best thing is that once you acquire this much knowledge on something, make sure you tell everyone that can possibly need it.
So I have a consistent habit around showing up in my investor calls and I often let people know I’m a local probate specialist. So now you’re going to get leads from investors who are prospecting these people and they are not going to buy it. If it’s not something seller is accepting. So you become the retail realtor partner for those investors.
So join the local REI. Thank you,
Rosie and everybody else on this call. I remember last July, get information fed you beat me to it last July this lady’s name showed up on the roster for probate mastery lab. I think it was July, maybe June and less than a year ago, she was a student and I will fed like here’s to you, right?
Like your language is amazing. Your approach is sound like you, you have you’re an asset here. Like you, you’ve gone from student to coach versus very quickly. So thanks for sharing that. And we got it on recording. No always great to hear your input and the advice. And I love watching what you guys are done down there.
I’m very encouraged, Chad, and you’re suddenly a very effortless teacher in this and a great coach. And I just learned while you talk and I just have, I’m so glad you’re doing zoom calls, because if I can see someone talk, I can learn so much better. And I’m so glad I get to see all these realtors.
Now I can connect in my head who to send referrals to. And gosh, if we have unanswered to each off that leg and branches that you have drawn we don’t need to worry about open doors for a full break or any other one percenters I’m actually. And I, I kinda came clean to you guys last week about why I haven’t moved forward with a state mastery and building out the next big thing, because I’m considering.
Casting a wider net and actually developing a system around this approach, but throughout that entire tree of decisions, so I can enable you to work any and every lead type and have answers and solutions that are implement. Like you bet you can implement on the spot. So you’d never, ever walk away from appointment going.
I wish I knew how to help them. And that’s what I’m considering is actually building out everything and here, building it out as one big course community where Louie talk about probate. Will you talk about the board? We talk about chores sales cause of Nestor’s there’s a different way to approach investors, especially an investor going through.
Like if investors are going through a divorce or partnership disillusion, I’ve had to bail massive portfolios, I’m like East some amount of piecemeals or to release so much business out there for the atypical realtors who are willing to, just raise the bar a little bit. So that’s what I’m actually considering turning that mind map into the Magnum Opus project and just, we can still have all the probate conversation we want.
And I’ll still continue. This is my favorite list of any and every list. But if you’re coming up, if you’re not getting the business growth that you want, then you can step in and bring in another spoke, add an, add another source to another spoke to the wheel. But so that, that’s what I’m thinking, the direction I’m headed.
I came back to West Virginia. So be in a place that I love with the people I love and my dog guys, three months, I didn’t get to see my dog cause he decided to stay here with grandma, his grandma and granddad. So while I’m here, I’m going to do some kayaking and fly fishing and really hopefully get clear on this and build it.
But I’d love to hear feedback from you guys. If you think that, I think fed you had some good advice last week is don’t get don’t dilute it too much and devalue it. This is more what I was thinking. It’s not so much diluting it as just giving you more surface area by having a broader skillset.
Yep. And Chad, one of the experiences I’m having is that I have I have worked extensively and diligently in retail business, and I could have been living more organized with my effort rather than just going gung ho on it. And I have done the same amount of effort on the real estate investment side.
Having probate conversations showing up in our is having short-sale conversations. I have learned there is equal if not opportunity in terms to get referrals in terms of getting paid. If we just change that one degree angle, and I’m telling you guys that for six years of my eight year career, I’ve only done retail.
Like I used to sell my listings to those investors who will do all these creative things with them. And I just wondered why am I on this side? I’m very encouraged to do it in a way, because I don’t think there’s enough platform, to be honest with you and the investor group chat relatives, I roast it.
Let’s just be honest about it. So it wasn’t mine too. And that’s what made that’s largely what shaped me the way I ended up shaping myself in residential. Cause I’m like, Oh hell no, you’re not going to look at me that way. And I came in and gave that, two hour presentation that showed them their Mark and everyone was like, th they were all anecdotally approaching their analysis and I went and showed them the hard numbers and what a guy was capable of, but he’d been in the market for a week.
And from there, like I established credibility and I’ve done a hell. I’ve probably sold over 300 houses through that one little group. Oh my gosh, I believe you on that. And that the normal amount of us whatever, everybody has their own way, but in my personal personality of how I feel connected, it is so valuable.
Like just one group, you can feed your business or career like it’s and build wealth on it because ultimately we’ve got to be honest with ourselves real estate, actual growth. Is it owning real estate and investing in real estate, selling is a great platform, but if you can learn also how to invest in real estate, Think about how valuable we are becoming to our clientele.
Now you can teach other people and take it to your clients. If you have a property that is 20% less than market value, and you’re helping one of your past clients buy it, they’re sitting on 40, 50% equity in their room. Would a lender in touch with them refight and putting them on this house. This is one word I sold real estate all your chance.
Last year we sold 104 units and I probably left my desk right here. 10 times all year. My goal is not to ever leave this desk. That’s it from here, I’m going to run the whole world. So go ahead please. You were going to attitudes? No, I got my whole business to that point in Roanoke within four years. I was doing portfolio sales for investors I was doing now.
I did go to the initial appointments of with the families and probate. And I always went to the closing table because I just out of respect they it’s important to people. I, there may be one or two closings in my entire career where I didn’t look the person in the eye and congratulate them regardless of what the situation was.
So I always left. I left my desk for the people, parts of the business and I, that I valued that. And I remember showing up on each closings and But COVID called position because child companies won’t let me I do miss that interaction. There are some things that I really fire me up.
I knew you could feel yourself when you were coming out of the appointment that acute you. So I look for that interactions as well. And I think Chad Corey asked if I have done any probate listings themselves yet. Yes, absolutely. I’m actually under contract with my probate listing and do off the probate are going to be our flips.
And I’m actually working on another post that I just posted today with the probate issue where there’s a missing hairs. Yes. Take me time. Yes, my pipeline. Yes. And Rosie goes so far. So you, Rosie was one of the. I would say you’re probably the student of mine that most quickly jumped to the advanced level where, when she got her first deal done, she sat down and said, okay, let’s turn you guys on the lenders.
And she used use the equity from the estate to capitalize her investors to buy their next deal. And you just create this loop of transaction. And we talk about that in session two and session three of mastery of how you, so yes, retain generational wealth, but then access it, show them how they can double their money at, at 18%, if you, if they’re going one point in 15% to your investors, they’re doubling their money.
Every two, like every three, three and a half years. And Rosie was one of the first, like you jumped on that within a month of actually beginning, she was having those conversations. Yeah, Rosie is somebody to follow. If you guys haven’t connected with her, she’s incredibly generous and she’s doing it.
I want to say something here like this, the last couple of weeks, these conversations have gone where I didn’t really expect, but I’m open to whatever shape this business might take, because I want to make sure it’s for you guys. What, so when I first started to realize what we were talking about, how a lot of business goes under the radar of retail realtors, and a lot of investors give up the 75% of the business, they can’t reach because they don’t have a license.
I like, why is this. How have we made it this far in the U S history or eaten into our story? And we have two real estate markets running, not even parallel to each other, one’s kind of running underneath those people are trying to dry, to drag the other, stir the mud. And the realtors are telling you how unethical and scumbags investors are.
And I’m like, where’s that disconnect? Like, how do you blend that? How do you blend these two parts of the market to where they’re one and raised the integrity of the, or at least the reputation of the investor community and. Raise the education level of the realtor community and create a single market.
That’s something that I had a long conversation with a friend in Orlando we met and something that like, that’s what I would like to do with the rest of my career in real estate, because I figured out how to do it at a personal level. I figured out how to blur that line, where I’m just Chad, and this is just the real estate market.
I’m your student chat. If that’s what you’re doing, because that’s exactly the boat Ironman, we use Messer group. And there’s a joke after joke on realtors, of course, because realtors tell us that they can solve for the top market value. Don’t give it away to an investor. So there is like this cold war. But if you have a thick skin enough to sit in it and just know that’s your opportunity, I am yet to really define what is an ideal realtor that works in a role that is beneficial to an investor and can be doable.
I’m yet to be able to define it. I can have you running like within weeks,
so many things that I’ve done. Like at the same time I was helping these probate families and doors, short sales. I was putting together private equity deals and riff and turning people into private lenders. And I was doing business like at a really advanced level and a really basic level at the same time.
And like every strategy that I showed you in that mind map it w I was running them all at the same time. Now you have to make sure that you understand them all, and then you can’t do this overnight. Like the average person, it’ll take you a year to get the education piece in place and build the relationship with the right attorney who has your back on paperwork and all that.
But with within days, I can have you at a level of clarity where you like. My, my whole goal was to never, ever tell a seller or a buyer that I couldn’t help them and never ever spend my time doing something to help somebody where I couldn’t get paid. And I’ve got this whole system that I’ve kept in my business and I’ve focused my whole, all of my energy on probate for the last seven, eight years.
So these are encouraging conversations for me cause I’m like, damn man. I just feel like I could do so much more for everybody. And this is validation of that. So I appreciate the ongoing conversation about it. And I’m, I’ve never even showed anyone that mindmap publicly to say, here’s what we could be learning about.
And if you guys want to email me, it’s Chad at Magnum Opus project or just jumping on Facebook and let’s start a conversation there. Like I would love to hear, what exactly where you think your blind spots are, what you think you would what can I give to you? And it’s not just me either.
I’ve already talked to other guys about this that are, there’s a handful of people who I’ve met in my career that I really respect. I don’t know if you guys listened to the podcast I did with Chris Prefontaine cat, if you’re on here, can you drop a link to it? Chris was one of those guys and we’re doing another, I think we’re doing something tomorrow, Jim kraut Kramer out of North Carolina, he’s one of those guys.
There’s a small handful of. Of people who have really blurred the lines. They’re not an investor, they’re not a realtor. They are a real estate professional. And if you ever listened to me and role-plays yeah, unless I accidentally did it, you probably never heard me call myself a realtor. It’s real estate professional real estate expert, real estate specialist.
And it’s because I want that to be a blurry gray area. I want them to go, what do you mean real estate specialist? Oh let me tell you about that. I own four companies because we help a lot of families and a lot of different ways that people respect the hell out of it. And I’ll tell you this is when you’re providing four or five, six options to a seller or a buyer buyers have less options than that.
But when you provide options like that, that they, they thought you were coming as a one trick pony and you were that you were, they were just gonna, it was going to be focused on the number, like the quickest. The quickest way to lose any negotiation is to get stuck on a number, right? It’s over if you’re, if you have that and no other game, but it’s on the table, it’s offering these options.
They’re just gambits. They think, all right, I’m going to judge this guy based on whatever number he says he can sell my house for. And I give them numbers, higher numbers lower, and then a number probably like all the other ones they got. And then they’re just like, Holy smokes. So you get this whole new level of respect from your prospect and they become clients.

[00:52:19] So I let’s start a conversation in our Facebook group and I’ll start the post. If you guys jump in, let me know, like what can I teach you that you, that, what do you think based on what we’ve talked about today, and once you’ve seen what’s my highest service to you? Cause I, I love teaching.
This is what I want to do and I really want to get rid of this. I’m an, I’m a realtor, I’m an investor to hell with the other side kind of mentality. And. Frankly make a better consumer impact. And real estate is going to become the bill. The bill that’s on the table in DC right now is going to, is likely to greatly complicate the real estate market and for the next, who knows how long decades to come.
So I’m sure a lot of it is positioning and political gambits. However, we can start to build trust and credibility with folks that So L I’m talking about the 10 31, the step up basis being removed. There’s a lot of things in this bill that’s really terrible for real estate. And just for as an example, if you take away that if you max a 10 31 benefit that $500,000, now I’m a hedge fund.
And Andrew that’s worked the last 20 years of my life and my ego keeps getting bigger and bigger, and people trust me more and more investors come in and I have, when a dollar comes in, it’s a hot potato and I have to get it out. Now you take my tax advantage away on a multimillion dollar asset.
What am I coming for? I’m coming for the house next to yours, and I’m going to drive, I’m going to price your neighbor out of his own damn neighborhood. And I’m going to own the entire block before the end of this decade. And I will institutionalize housing and metal and the middle-class of America. And that’s why these things are so dangerous because I feel like they’re not looking at the social aspects of the policy they’re proposing.
So we’re going to have, I feel a sense of duty. If this is a law that passes, you’ve got a sense of duty to protect individual home ownership, because otherwise institutions are going to own neighborhoods. They’re going to own suburbs and it will completely change our co our culture here, the culture of those neighborhoods.
So some of this stuff might not happen. It might be political positioning and just gambit, but these are the types of. Yeah. What we’re talking about. If we know how to navigate it from all those different ways, we can step that and protect people and offer them. Things are not considering right now.
One of the institutional buyers actually bought a whole subdivision in Conroe. Yeah. I’m getting listings and the offers are coming from acquisition managers. I’ve never gotten those kinds of offers. Who are you acquiring these properties for? So they’re coming. And like we’d last week I got a call on the referral.
I saw this guy’s house. And he said, I, man, she goes to church and she was crying her eyes out to me, Rosie, you need to really help her out. I told her you can. And after talking to them, Chad, here’s the bullet points outfit she has. She has never done a flip in her life. It is a quadruplex. She only got into the business because the contractor who is used to doing this is her best friend.
He went to hospice. They have a hard money loan on the property and you and I both know, hi Nick, call high up interest rate. That is, she has emptied out her life savings, trying to maintain the payment while the partner contractor is in hospice and now she needs to get off. She doesn’t know what to do.
There is not enough money to go on the market and sell because it’s incomplete project financing wouldn’t happen. What do we do here now is the time to bring the investor who can take over, paid off, flip it, make it a buy and hold, or maybe make the setter equity partners so she can get some offer financing back.
This is going to happen again and again. And Jaguar was the biggest separating. She got bought up realtors and calls and all that stuff, and she wouldn’t return my call. So I left a voicemail saying, Hey, you’re probably thinking I’m a traditional realtor who can only help by sticking a sign in the yard and putting on MLS.
And you’re probably thinking you don’t have enough money to pay my commissions. Are you probably not sure if calling me will serve as a solution. I want you to know I work in 12 different ways to help people. I don’t know which one is best for you. So I know the troll you have on hand is worth five minutes of conversation with me.
She called me back right away. So we got under contract in Galveston. I drove three hours, then it’s a four unit property. So it’s important that it is essential that we expand our knowledge. So I thank you. That’s all. That’s amazing. All right. Who else? Anybody? We can help. Anything. Anybody wants to share?
Any questions?

[00:56:44] You knew names here, you brought up that you were doing your main work now and notes and syndications last week. Yeah, so I write privately and I buy real estate syndications, which are basically, it’s not technically crowdfunded, so they’re, they’re four and that’s the other thing.
I’ll go back to like my passion to blur that line and create real estate professionals. My hope for each of you guys is I can get you out of production. And I had this conversation with one of my students from four years ago, who just called me today. And he was like, I know who to call when I need help.
I’ve been procrastinating. I need to get back in this. And we had this talk, but he’s created a really good job for himself, but he doesn’t have a business. And I don’t know about you guys, but when I. Was in the thick of it working eight days a week, 17 hours a day in real estate, it felt like a job to me.
And I started to educate myself and work on some different things and slowly move in that direction to turn a job into a business. And once I hit the accredited investor status, once you have a million dollars in net worth and you can reach into a whole new world of investment opportunities. So that’s the other part of this community that I would like to, I don’t know if there’s a demand for it.
Let’s just see a show of hands. If I can show you how to work less, make more, become a millionaire accredited investor and have access to private equity deals where you get. Bob, the ones that tend to one gains in a year, who’s interested because that’s how I built my career. That’s the track I went on.
I went from a negative net worth to well, beyond that to being able to retire at a very young age and giveaway. More money than I ever thought I could make. And that’s what that’s what I want to do for all you guys. That’s what I really want to do here. I don’t want to drive revenue and talked about this and that I want us all to move in that direction together and I want to be able to bring us as a group together and then take down a private equity deal.
So there’s a lot of things that I’ve done. I’ve, I’ve sat I’ve been trained by some of the top syndication coaches and attorneys in the country. And I have a lot of friends who are sponsors, not a lot of exposure to that world. And my goal was to not show you how to become busier, but how to be, how to do less work, retain more money through, say, optimizing your taxes through, investing in certain things that help give you a tax benefit or, minimize your taxes.
Capital gains. You guys heard me with coming up short on his name out of Sacramento, the guy that had the opportunity two weeks ago, I encouraged him not to flip that house because he, a lot of it, a lot of his profit is going to be eaten up in tight by taxation. And there’s a lot of things we can do that we can make an extra 20% return, even though someone else might be like that.
Guy’s a damn fool that out the margin was thin on that deal. But if we can use that to minimize our earned income tax, then it can have a huge return. So that’s the kind of stuff I want to start teaching. So Joyce, what’s in that is in 2013, 2012, Yeah, I moved in 2012. I started in production by 2013.
I had learned enough that I was like, Oh, I going to do something different. And I started writing small balance mortgages the smallest mortgage I’ve ever written with $6,000 for a four day period. And it’s one point origination, 15% interest. And if they go out of term, whether that’s the term as a week or the term is five years, if they go out of term, the interest rate, retroactively adjust to 18%.
So there’s an incentive not to default. Now I’ve done those anywhere from, I don’t know $6,000 for a few days to several hundred thousand dollars for up to five years. And you think what kind of damn fool would pay 15% interest? And it’s one that trusts you. And one that knows you’re not going to give them a bunch of BS fees and run around.
Like you can sign the deal tomorrow. And I only do it with people that I’ve been able to personally vet like that. I know, and I underwrite the assets on my own. I write in markets where I know the market, but I’ve come to trust prop stream quite a bit. I’ve written a couple out of market phones, or I knew the person, but I didn’t know that the neighborhoods or the market.
And I underwrote it. Solely with prop stream. Because I do trust that. There’s no databases, perfect prop cramps, pretty close. And as far as syndications, for a true syndication, you have to have a credited investor status, meaning you have to have at least $200,000 annual income or a $400,000 joint filers income.
Or a million dollar net worth excluding your primary residence. And once you clear that bar, you can just get a letter from your CPA. You fill out questionnaire, that’s where you can start to get in deals that have massive gains. And some of these, like an opportunities on you can buy into a Dell DST as a Delaware, statutory trust.
And there’s several sponsors who are really savvy. So they set up a Delaware statutory trust in an opportunity zone. So your cashflow isn’t that great. You’re making all of your money by saving the money. You would have paid an income tax. But a lot of the some of those things we don’t actually get to reach into until we can get to that accredited investor status.
So as a coach here anyone, who’s not a millionaire. But the verifiable millionaire, I feel compelled to get your ass there as fast as I can. So one has the, you make money too. How do you retain money? Three. How do you minimize taxation? Four. How do you invest for big gains and five? How do you quit work and sit down much?
Like those are the things I’m really passionate about teaching now because I was able to achieve it. So we’ll start this conversation over in Facebook. Where we can start to see what everybody feels like. They want to learn the most, but this is encouraging to me because I sit and think, Oh, nobody, this is nobody really wants to learn all this complicated shit.
They just want to learn how to so probate real estate. But if you guys are, if you guys are eager students, I’m a passionate teacher on this stuff. And that’s what I’ve found over the last several weeks. I spend the most of my time helping friends do this stuff, coaching them through strategies, helping them scale, their small business, helping them design a lifestyle where they can step out.
But even down to things like guys, do you know that I haven’t balanced a checkbook since 2005 and I haven’t actually physically paid a bill since 2005. I automated my whole life. I don’t, I do not get physical mail. My mail gets emailed to me and it falls into a Dropbox folder, whether it’s personal or which business is associated with.
And I can teach you little things like this, that we’ll take back, you can gain back so much of your time and mind space. And those are the little things that really helped me optimize life. And it’s why I can, even before, this year before I made a drastic change and moved into an RV, I was traveling six to eight months a year.
I don’t tell you, I spend less than $50,000 a year and I live an amazing lifestyle. So I’m learned to, like I was at Macy’s last week I had, my friend of mine is a professional photographer and she did a photo shoot for me. We walked into Macy’s. I picked out a Tommy Bahama shirt was 120 bucks. I walked up to the counter and offered him 70 cents on a dollar.
And he folded like a damn beach chair. And I walked out with the shirt I wanted, I don’t pay retail for anything. And you can do this in every area of your life, not just in your real estate portfolio. So there’s so much that I have to teach about this stuff, like how you can buy everything at least a 30% discount, how you can save my I’ve gotten my effective tax rate down to 19%.
Through a lot of these little life hacks that really helped me become more profitable, put that money back in the business, let the business invest instead of me personally spending it. And it’s not going to be the same for all of you guys, but you can take inspiration from it. And so far only my close friends really benefit from that.

[01:04:35] But let’s start that conversation. If you guys think it’s something for this community, I’ll start teaching it all. I got something to say it, Roger. It better. Be nice. I will be nice. Thank you. And thank you, Rosie. I’ve had within the last month a Single brand, a personal friend. Who’s who’ve, I’ve watched over the years and he’s just become over a millionaire.
He’s asked me to come to join him in his stuff. I’m stuck on this low Weichert brand. And I think that’s what happens to realtors. They get stuck on a brand. They get comfortable with with with the pace of what’s happening. But then I started really working my probate stuff. And now I’ve had one of one of the three investors that I’m working with right now.
He said, I want you to, I want to start a. Real estate company. And I want you to be the executive broker for it. Now want, I want to start building stuff like that. And I said Whoa. You’re going to have a lot more flexibility in the state of Arkansas. If you don’t have a real estate license, which is a reflecting on one of your conversations, do your own deals under an up separate LLC, have somebody else do the LLC.
And you’re doing it through that through that thing. And I sit there and I went well, that’s how you do that. And within the last two weeks, I’ve got a business broker who wants me to come on board and be his executive executive broker of of starting up his his he’s a pastor he’s.
Probably about 78 years old. And he wants me to come over and start helping him with MNAs and other issues other issues and other businesses. So you make a lot of money, Roger, and I’m sitting here going, what am I missing? This is a paradigm shift. Oh God, Roger. Don’t get stuck. Don’t get stuck. What are you doing?
What am I going to do? I need to talk to Chad. And these conversations always start with me. Roger. What do you want your lives to look like in 10 years? Do you want to be working more or less? Obviously less. Yes. You bite off those opportunities when you have to work more or less. There’s a lot of learning, a lot of analytics that I’ve got to catch up on with.
Not much. I’ve got I’ve got a lot of background in in finance and and with with my MBA in goods. Oh, but I’m going to have to buck up on it. Wouldn’t take me quick. It’ll be a quick study to get to get to the language that they recognize, but with the investors doing their own self investing, so on and so forth, as well as going, working the other stuff in working probate, it’s just basically the emotional disconnect of Weichert.

[01:07:04] The folks that I’ve been with for the last 13 years and going out on my own, I’ve already had two of them. I’ve mentioned one of the opportunities too is with some of the bad guys. And they said, Oh, you’re going to go. You’re got to go broke if you do that. Roger and I sit there and I go. Thanks for your limited perspective.
So I want you to look something up, and this is something I find myself having this conversation a lot late. It’s interesting how some things just keep coming up, but I want you to look up the crabs in the bucket, phenomenal, the crabs in the bucket crabs and the bucket came from ancient Chinese Confucianism, but it’s also closely followed in in Western psychology.
And what it is it’s an observation of a real phenomenon. So if blue crabs are put in a bucket and one tries to crawl out, the crab will drag it back in. If it tries to escape again, they’ll drag it back down and break its legs. So it’s physically capable of leaving the group. When people say things like what they said to you.
It’s because deepen their subconscious mind. I love Roger. Roger’s going to leave me. He’s going to escape and I’m going to lose that love. I got to find a way to keep him down here with us. Get back in the bucket, Roger, and understand. I’m not saying that there’s any fault to be placed on them. They’re doing it from a place of what they believe is a place of love, but usually it’s not action.
It’s not a, an action motivated by love. It’s an action motivated by fear and you’ll see it. Anyone who grew up in a rougher neighborhood will typically be drugged back to that social situation and anyone who, it’s present in all parts of our life. If you just look, but keep in mind that person’s default is to get is to keep you as close as they have for 17 years and have access you then moved to.
Yeah, just Pat you on the back, when you do a good job, whatever that might be. So in there, I got to keep him in my tribe. He’s part of my tribe. I trust them how I love the guy and they’re like, Roger, you’re going to screw up. Like you’re going to fail. And they mean it with it’s coming from a place of love, even though it feels hateful.
So read about the crabs in a bucket phenomenon and it’ll help you in a lot of areas of your life.

[01:09:17] The other thing I will say, no, having known you for several years seeing how you approach things. I think business brokerage is a good fit for you. There are 12 million baby boomer business owners in the United States right now that do not have a disposition plan.
They have the choice to put their business on the market. And the last and 2019, the last normal year that we had on the books for small businesses are all businesses. There were only one in 14 businesses sold. The majority of those were between 5 million and $150 million in revenue. The vast majority of baby boomer businesses and the businesses in your part of the country are going to be well below that $5 million Mark.
So MNA firms, private equity firms, they’re all overlooking them. They’re not looking for those companies. It’s the same amount of work for less revenue and left West. There’s less less meat that they can take off the bone, right? So there’s this amazing opportunity. And in, in this country to step up and preserve small businesses that otherwise there’s a one in one in 14 chance they’ll actually sell and go to to a new business owner.
13 out of 14 are going to shut down and sell the equipment for whatever they can on an auction format or, yard, piecemeal and out. I started something last year called your small business hub. And we were overwhelmed with the response. I have over 600 young aspiring entrepreneurs that are trying to step out of their W2 and into small business ownership.
And it’s something that I’ve coached people on, but for you there’s opportunity in real estate because a good majority of that businesses will have real estate attached to the business, right? So you can monetize it more than one way. You have the finance background, you have the will to serve.
Like I think you’ll do really well in business brokerage, and I think you’ll work less and that business, then you will just content. I think there’s a ton of opportunity. And if you want to talk offline, we can, but I will selfishly say, I don’t want to see you quit probate real estate because you have become.
Kind of a, an idol that I point to, and that’s because of you, you listened when we first spoke, you took what I said, seriously, you put it into play and you’ve become a great example for everybody. So for that reason I don’t want you to quit doing that. But find a way to find a way to automate more of that.
I think I will. And it’ll probably be on a training side and staying involved with with that, because it looks like I’ll have to find somebody to to do some of the stuff that I’m doing because I’ll have other responsibilities and listen to me, I’m already over there doing it, but it’s okay. I had a conversation this weekend and went to LA. Yes. I don’t know if you were on, I guess that and exercise. I think it’s been three weeks ago. I want let’s have you write a letter 2031. Roger needs to write 20, 21, Roger a letter. See what comes out and doing that exercise.
Sit down and say, my gosh, I never knew that life could be this easy. I never knew that you could make so much of an impact and so much money doing so little work. I closed four deals last year, but they were all big business deals with real estate attached. And I made commissions on the business sale commissions on the real estate sale.
And they’ll one of the kids even asked me to stay on as an equity partner because he had never owned a business. And he wanted me to be his coach. It feels this way. I do this in my free time, but it’s an exercise that will emerge you in your own. It’s, you get immersed in your own vision and it gives it some life.
So do that between now and next week. You’re going to be proud of me because my son is a transportation broker for ch Robinson. And he’s got an, a, he’s got an opportunity that he did it. And I do remember hearing your suggestion of write yourself a letter for for the next 10 years, looking back on where you were.
And I use that with him and he just sat there and he went, what good is that going to do? And I said, you’re building the future going backwards. And he just sit there and he went, what I’ve never heard of anything like that. And that’s it exactly. That’s why you need to do that. And so we had a couple of other coaching moments and I really enjoyed enjoyed the weekend.
I had played golf with him. I’ve had a back problem for last four years and I just finished two years of chiropractic and picked up the golf clubs and I can’t hit, I don’t know if I can, I don’t know what I do. I, everything goes a hundred yards, 125 yards driver, everything. I think I’m cashing before that.
That’s where I want to be. I want to spend some time in Phoenix at John Jacobs center and get my game going back. So I used to be a 10 handicap. It’s a lot of fun and I’m doing it. Look forward to having a one-on-one with you sometime. Hey, something I want to share with you. Roger. There’s a doctor that I met in Aspen, Colorado last, last winter, and he’s got a business called back forever.
And golf forever. And it’s all based for free people, my age to your age. But it’s a it’s not necessarily he’s a chiropractor. I think he might be an MD on top of that. Jeremy, James, I think was his name, but he’s got a system just for. Keeping your back and really good shape.
So it doesn’t become injured, but especially for golfers. And he was a high end golf coach and golf chiropractor and the Aspen market. And he decided, Hey, I need to get this information to more people. And he’s worked with a lot of Olympians, but I think it’s 10 bucks a month and he made an app. They made an app that goes on your phone and it’s a series of daily exercises for the specific movements and your case for specific for golf.
So you strengthen those muscles and don’t risk having to go through two more years of chiropractic treatment because you’re doing small things daily to prevent that injury to begin with. And it’s amazing, like some of the folks he works with, they’re in their mid eighties and they’re mobile.
Like their shoulder mobility in their swing is unbelievable. And it’s just doing a little bit each day. So anyway, that’s something you should look up back forever and golf forever. I got it. I got it down. Thank you for your time. Yeah. Thank you, Roger.
What’s that fed locally. Shut up, Mr. Pinell. How’s that sound here? Oh, what’s up David? He had a picture of Kevin Warren in a cowboy hat earlier today. He sat me. I’m like my world was that your head are hits. You’re you’re muted out, David. So
here, let me see if I can unmute you. I got it. There you are. Yeah, his father is really sick here in Fort. So he’s been here twice in the last 10 days. Oh, that’s too bad the circumstances,

[01:15:53] but the guys don’t know. Kevin Ward is a real estate coach. He’s had a lot of stuff on YouTube. Yes. Masters. The name of his channel right there.
Yeah. It’s really good communication coach. Yeah. So David’s one of his, I don’t know if you’re a student or his teacher at this point.
Yeah. We sat on the we sat on my porch until 1:00 AM last night. Just talking about life. Yeah. I don’t know. Did you just now jumped on how long I go minutes. Okay. So you just got to here, we’re going to revolutionize Roger Lacey’s golf swing and then change his life maybe to become a business broker and a multi-billionaire.
But before that. We decided that we’re going to actually broaden this conversation and teach folks to do what you and I do and monetize every deal with multiple strategies and get rid of the stigma between realtors and investors. Are you on board? Oh, hell yeah. I just I just got a referral card from an agent.
They said, all I guess they saw my probate stuff and they just finished probate, but they looked, they found me through YouTube, which is awesome. Yeah. See, there it is guys video. And David, for anybody here that doesn’t know, David, you took mastery then went three years now since you got started in probate and he for encouragement, within one year he was on, two con and seven digits of revenue and has been able to cut his overhead immensely work.
What are you working now, David? Three days a week or down the two. It’s, it really doesn’t feel like work anymore, but it was like, I work seven days a week. I have a baby and a house I’m rehabbing, but yeah, it’s a, it’s amazing man. And we’ve and I found one, one estate that has 67 properties in it, then assault, murder.
I’m the sole person taking care of it now. So she’s she calls me a hot shot. Are you going to piecemeal that or portfolio? So I’m just waiting on the air to make that decision. They’re getting rid of the worst first, and then they want to sell off the good stuff, I think as a whole.
Yeah. Let me know when that one’s ready. Let me know before it goes on the market. I can probably sell it right in a few, couple of phone calls. Yeah. Especially if it’s in Texas, Yeah, they’re getting rid of everything was bad title issue, and then we’ll probably put everything together that has good title and just get rid of it.
Yeah. I’ve got a lot of friends who are looking for those I’m in Texas yeah, she let me have four in the last week to sell. And that’s 73,000 assignments. That’s not a, 20 grand, 22,000 on a house, 73 grand in a week. I’ll bet you that. I bet you’ve had worse weeks. Oh yeah. Horrible. So guys, David is a really good example of what I would like all of your stories to look like.
If we can take and balloon this brokerage strategy with an investment strategy and add in the other investment strategies and then start to really focus on how do we make sure you pay as little taxes as possible and invest in the right places and the right assets diversified. Of course.
Then the conversation becomes a lot more exciting like these, and every time they did not talk, I’m just lit up. Yeah. I didn’t have places to go to with some stuff like that. I do now.

[01:18:48] Oh, hell. A holler at you. What’s what’s that thing about depreciation and asset Chad work. Since I have that house now it’s died about 900,000 downtown.
You mean caused segregation? I heard someone talking about it on YouTube. I just didn’t understand if I could use it on. And it does, or does it have to be a homestead or where are you depreciate your previous income to offset an asset?
I have other questions. I’ll. I won’t put you on the spot on a recorded call. I’ll call you and we can talk through it. There’s different ways you can do it. You can do accelerated depreciation. You can do cost segregation really depends on your bigger tax picture, how it’s going to benefit you the most.
Okay.
And the other thing is, so you’re looking at anyway we’ll talk about it offline. I’ve got some other kind of personal finance questions that I don’t really want you to have to answer on a recorded call, but all right, guys, who else can we help anybody have anything they want to add?
No gross. Good to see you here, sir. Thank you guys. Good to be here. Factoid. When Kevin Ward left his last job as a coach, somebody else replaced him. So I replaced him when Kevin Ward left, when masters, they hired me as his replacement, small factory. Oh, look at that. I’ve never met him. I’ve talked to him and we’ve emailed and I like his material lie.
I’ve never met him, but just small factoid. Me and Kevin were just for this one. Yeah, he’s a really good guy. He’s he’s when I first met him and he was real nerdy and just starting yes, masters and he’s evolved and he’s had some trouble in life. And one of those things that he talks about now is his daughters.
He didn’t have a connection with three daughters. Wow. And it forced him to California. I think he doesn’t say that, but it forced them out of Texas for a little bit, but he wanted to move to California he’s over the years. Yeah. But he’s reconnected with his daughters. He’s beautiful relationship. He has four grandkids.
He’s so excited about it. It’s amazing. He just went camping with all of them up in possum kingdom over the weekend and they had the best time. So it’s cool.
Yeah. You need to come out that you can camp on the, when the red bull gets here, they do that competition where they jump off that cliff. There’s a cliff it’s called devil and they dive off of it. I’ll be fed. Oh, we got fed. Fed doesn’t know he’s prospecting live. Who wants to listen?
No, you’re not. Oh, darn. We were going to get, where are you at yet? Call it an audible, Dave. I’m not going to be. I came to the farm in West Virginia. I came up to visit mom and dad for a bit. So I’ll be in Fort worth a little later. I decided to come up and have some mountain air and see my dog and my parents flight.
Yeah. Yeah. You’re going to let me pick the paint color from my bedroom, right? Yes. Yes.
We’ll do paint blue and red, whatever you remember.

[01:21:27] I want an RV fat on the West side of the house. Okay. That’s easy for you. And then I’m going to buy me an RV when you leave. Nice and when you’re not using it, we’re going to rent it out. I’ve got buddies that are making 20, 24 to 30% internal rates of return renting, fricking class CRV.
My friends, my friend, Sergio. He was a, he worked for the federal reserve and he got his fill of that. And now he’s one of those guys we were talking about earlier on syndications he’s syndicating, self storage. So he’s got the self storage he owns this company owns. So he’s now buying our, the park on the self storage facilities and automating RV rental.
Like he is a lockbox system. They come, they show up, they take it, they leave, he comes back and he’s getting 250, $300 a night for these little 31 foot class seats that he’s making like down there damn near 30% return on a rental portfolio of RVs. And so there’s good business Senate.
That’s awesome. It’s an awesome market. And it’s just your horizontal development for an RV park is really low it’s compared to putting sticks up and building houses. And there’s just a lot of people going small and I’ve got I’ve see, I see that kind of stuff popping up all over this place in Northwest Arkansas.
It’s just frigging phenomenal. I’m working on a deal for one of my three investors. The seller. Worked for the university of Arkansas for 40 years. He’s an, a PhD emeritus. And my first visit was with him. I walked up to his house and knocked on the door. He walked up with a Marine hat and a Marine camouflage over shirt and pants and boots, and had a Marine symbol on his t-shirt.
And I didn’t realize that he drinks in the afternoon and I just walked up and I said were you in the Marines? And he looked at me and he said, son, once you’ve been in the Marines, you’re always in the Marine. What the hell I can kick your ass? Anytime I feel like it. And I just looked at him and I said, Yes, sir, you can.
And I, by golly, I’m just walk over here to the edge of your front porch and just admire you
and the dialogue went on from there. I’m still working on him to get his price down to wherever my investors trying to get. And it has that property has many storage on it. And it has about 30 pads for RV parking on it. And and it’s grown up in just, there’s just so many opportunities to summit.
So many of those popping up over here in Northwest Arkansas. It’s incredible. And it’s just. It’s the price of the land. Put some, puts, put a dump or some sort of some way to, to have the waste dump in it somewhere and get some water, electricity, and cable to it. And let people start parking and paying you $400 a month.
Yeah, with Arkansas. We’ll just put some schedule 80 on the surface and pipe it to the Creek.
 I’ll tell you what, I’ll tell you what, right now there’s so much water coming off. Beaver Lake is there is high and the white river is just, they’ve got the canoeing and it’s just awesome right now. And it’s just, this is the time you should be up here. I know, I’m sorry. I didn’t get to come through.
There’s so many people to visit and I just, I decided I talked to mom and dad last week and they were excited that even the mention that I might come home. So I was like, nah, to hell with it. So I just I only stopped twice to get diesel between Florida and here. So I’m going to spend some time with them.
Speaking of guys, I’m going to wrap up. I told him I’d be done at four and here we are love these conversations. Thank you guys so much for all the participation and I’ll either me or cat will drop a post on Facebook to start the conversation on what you want, what I can give you going forward.
And we might even theme these calls where we do instead of more of a general coaching conversation. Maybe they’re a little more, more themed where we actually focus on a theme and teach that and focus that conversation. So anyways, encouraging call for me guys. I can’t tell you how much it means to have all these faces and the names as part of this community, and look forward to serving you going forward.
Have a great week. Thanks Guys