In this episode, Marc Harris and Karen Iturrino from ProbateCash.com join to discuss creative real estate solutions for probate properties. You’ll learn how to use cash advances to net more equity for beneficiaries, save probate deals that otherwise look hopeless, and why the typical criticisms of inheritance advances are wrong.
- Where to Stream This Episode
- Episode Topics and Timestamps
- Links and Contact Info for Probate Cash
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Where to Stream: Creative real estate solutions for probate properties that increase equity: Cash Advance Strategies
Ask The Expert Segments: Creative real estate solutions for probate properties that increase equity: Cash Advance Strategies
0:00 Cash advances in a high-interest rate environment
9:35 How to use a probate cash advance for creative finance deals
15:14 The Silver Tsunami and senior real estate
19:36 Dealing with evictions in inherited homes
22:44 Why critics of cash advances are wrong
TRANSCRIPT for episode 102
Cash advances in a high-interest rate environment
Chad Corbett: All right. Welcome back everybody to our Ask the Expert series. You probably recognize the faces on the screen. You have met Marc and Karen from Probate Cash. But we wanted to have them back on because if you haven’t noticed the market is shifting and as the market shifts, as we get through different parts of the credit and debt cycle, the dynamics change across the board.
So, a lot of the things we talked about in a low-interest rate rising price environment have shifted drastically in just a matter of months. So, with a very hawkish fed, your friend has. Kind of changed the world. You know, there are people in developing countries that literally can’t make ends meet because of the strength of the US dollar.
And that can look like a good thing for us. It can look bad for other people, even the lower-income people in this country. So, if you look at the actual cost of living all 0.2 things like the chat wood index. That tracks the actual cost of real-life goods across the top 50 MSAs.
We’re looking at real inflation around 18.5%, and that’s being felt at the consumer level, and you often hear me talk about consumer impact, consumer impact, like that’s who I’m here to serve. So, we wanted to just kind of talk to, you know, it’s always fine to follow the money too, if you want to see the leading indicators in a market.
So, these guys are working on the ground with families, giving probate advances, and seeing the real-life problems that are coming from these early indicators. And what I believe is to come and, and the real estate market. So, chances are if you’re in a populated. The Midwest was a little bit insulated, but then, if you’re in a coastal area for sure, top 25 MSAs, you’re probably seeing inventory not rising , at the rate we would think.
I think that fixed-rate debt at such low rates is making people stay in homes longer. So, you’re not saying ramping inventory as we saw in the ’06, and ’07 period. But what you’re seeing is buyers tightening up and hitting the sidelines. You see builders throwing massive incentives and rate buy-downs.
What we’re heading toward is a very drastic slowdown in the market, if not just a bit of a freeze where sellers have to catch up with the reality that the paper equity, they had 90 days ago or 180 days ago is theoretical at this point.
And without being creative, they’re probably not going to be able to achieve that valuation. So, there are lots of ways and probate is not insulated from this.
So, we have families, you know, the heirs are feeling financial distress. They’ve probably lost 25, 30% out of there. Their portfolio. They’re less, lendable than they were before, as are the buyers that are, are looking at the houses in probate if we focus specifically on that. So there are ways that a probate advanced company can come in and help move homes that are stuck in this, winter phase where everything’s just kind of frozen until prices fall far enough to motivate buyers to pay higher interest rates or the fed reverses course and interest rates come down to motivate people to get back into the, into the game.
So, little this is, you know, speculative on my part. I’m pretty bearish about the housing sector. Not so much because of the metrics in housing, but because of all the other metrics and, and the macro environment mainly energy and the cost of food is hitting everyday Americans and you know, the rise in interest rates.
So, that’s kind of what we’re going to jump into today. For anyone who has not met probate cash, Marc and Karen, would you like to introduce yourself before we jump into the rabbit hole??
Marc Harris: Well, uh, sure. Thanks, Chad. I’m Mark Harris. I’m the CEO of Probate Cash and also an. We’ve valued the relationship we have with Probate Mastery and Chad and appreciated all the referrals we’ve gotten from a lot of you who are watching to remind everybody.
What we do is advance money at probate cash to beneficiaries against beneficiaries in the estate so that usually the estate is open. Oftentimes the major asset of the estate is a. And we advance money to the beneficiaries against the inheritance they’re going to receive. It’s non-recourse. We file our assignment of the inheritance in the court, take all the risk, and, it enables all the beneficiaries to give money upfront, not have to wait for prob.
We can talk about the advantages of how that works, not just for the beneficiaries, but for hopefully you as. And I’ll let Karen, who is the nuts and bolts of our place, introduce herself as well, and what she does here.
Karen Iturrino: Hello. So, I’m Karen. I am the VP of Business Development. I am not a lawyer nor am I a realtor, but I work with a lot of realtors doing referrals, and trying to find solutions for clients.
And I’m pretty much always at everyone’s disposal.
Chad Corbett: We know who the real deal maker is here.
Marc Harris: Exactly.
Chad Corbett: So I’m curious, like what we’re seeing on the ground, you know, in as real estate practitioners, whether you’re an investor or, you know, a good friend of mine who I helped in the investment world, he’s doing about three and a half million in volume as a wholesaler just on wholesale assignments across two markets, you could say he’s pretty, he’s kind of successful. He’s, he’s getting something right. He’s done almost 3 million in volume in the first three quarters of this year. His pipeline for the first time and probably. Five, or six years is empty. So, buyers, and his cash buyers are pulling back. The buyers who are using community bank DSCR loans are pulling back and it’s harder to get homes under contract.
What that is, that is a leading indicator. And this is a market I know, like the back of my hand. It’s where I invested for years, so, we’re seeing on the ground leading indicators of sellers clinging to yesterday’s price and buyers waiting for tomorrow’s price. And we’re in this purgatory in the middle, this, this sort of slow-moving if not a frozen marketplace.
So that’s what we see on the real estate side. I’m curious, like the conversation you guys are having or the situation you’re seeing specifically on the probate side. I’m sure will come back to real estate seeing that over 85%, 82% of these will have real estate.
So, what do you see on the ground?
Like from your standpoint as a probate advanced company, like, have you seen a shift in, in your part of, of, you know, the the.
Karen Iturrino: Sure, we have seen errors that have come to us looking for an advance. They are going to sell their house for this high price.
It’s going to be sold in like three days. Can we do the advance? And then they decide, no, it’s going to sell in three days. I don’t need the advance. And three months later they came back. And the house, we don’t value it as high because we understand the market’s turning and they are actually in bigger need of the money than they would have been having they made the advance three months ago.
We also have errors. Wanting to take an advance to buy that. Now they’re not sure they want to proceed because they are waiting for, them to sell their property, the estate property at, like you said, yesterday’s price, but purchase our new one at tomorrow’s. So, we get a lot of, we’re in the middle.
We also have many more errors coming to us that they want to fix up the property to ensure they get the higher. So, it’s been interesting because we’re, we are seeing both sides of
Chad Corbett: it. Yeah, I think, I mean, what’s important like in that situation is that you have the nicest house on the market at a realistic price.
Even if it doesn’t sell for more, oftentimes just being the one that sells is important, right? Like we all saw in the 20 11, 20 12 markets. It was after this, you know, a three-year period of, of slow-moving winter, and then every like it. The first buyers were afraid to make the move. So, if you, back then, to create urgency in the marketplace I was working in, we had to get creative.
We had to do well from a design and construction standpoint, and we had to do good marketing to motivate the agents too. To get emotional about it, bring their buyers back. So, we were able to set high comps in a, in a stale market, but we had, that meant we had to do a damn good job rehabbing and marketing that property.
So, I think that’s what we’re, that’s, that’s what, that’s indicative of what you’re seeing. Like you people know if we’re going to do this if we’re going to catch a falling knife, we got to polish the damn knife. Right? Like it’s got to look as it’s got to look as attractive or as we got to dull the knife maybe. To make it as attractive as possible.
So, somebody who might be sitting there thinking, oh, I need to buy, but rates are high. Like, how can we motivate them to act? And oftentimes that’s through good design and construction, which costs good money, and they might not have liquidity. So, I think that’s what you’re seeing.
the the savvier, of the heirs are realizing, holy crap, if we sit, if we leave the house in its current condition, sit here and do nothing, then the knife is going to it. Fall deeper and deeper. So why not just get this done while there’s still some money, you know, in the marketplace, buyers who are taking action?
So, Mark, you had something to say. I’m sorry I walked over to you
Marc Harris: there. No, no, that’s okay. I think you’re enjoying us, yeah. We, see that shift, and what we also see when there’s a shift like this is. If not a panic. Certainly, there’s a concern out there that’s affecting both the sellers, the buyers, and of course the realtors.
How to use a probate cash advance for creative finance deals
Marc Harris: Now in our business, remember the executor is selling the estate home. They’ve got the letters, they’ve got the control, but they also have a fiduciary duty to all these other beneficiaries of them. And these beneficiaries just want to get paid already. And they can’t understand why the house isn’t selling or they’re putting pressure on the executor to take any price because frankly, they need money.
And, you know, if a house sells for $50,000 less, you know, to some people who are anxious to get their money, but that’s acceptable to them. But they’re putting undue pressure. On the executor, which is putting pressure on you all, the realtor too, to get it done. And you know what cash is the one thing that is always alleviated the pressure.
And so, if you got, you know, while you’re dealing with the executor who’s getting anxious because they’re getting phone calls all the time from there, their family members looking to know why the house isn’t being sold, why the probate case? Not moving along. We also come in there because sometimes giving $20,000 to a beneficiary who’s unrelated to the sale of the house but is putting that pressure on the house you know, kind of, putting pressure on the executor, which is putting pressure on you, the realtor.
That kind of $20,000 is amazing to clear everybody’s head, and make the right decision. Get money to fix up the house, design construction, and then get, get a fair price because, you know, we all make poor decisions when we’re under pressure and usually we’re under pressure because people are desperate.
And that’s what we’re starting to see, the first signs of desperation because in a market where the houses were selling in an hour or up to bid, now we’re seeing people who actually. Owe us money, but they’re not even, they’re not taking the offers because they think they’re not good enough. These offers, they’re, they’re, they’re wanting offers from six months ago, nine months ago, and they’re just not willing to accept the reality of today.
Chad Corbett: Yep. I mean, as part of this community, you know, we’ve got creative people who have taken what they’ve learned in our courses, and we can make markets move. You know, we’ve got creative finance specialists, so if, depending on how title is held, if it’s from SP status, spouse B with a transfer on death, if it was, you know, tenants the entirety with rights of survivorship, we can sell those house, if you know, to gain regain liquidity for you guys and to let get the family to where they can finish this.
Any deals that you have already put advances on that are stuck. Remember, members of this community can come in, they can quit, claim the house out, or it’s already transferred on death. They can sell it at a premium because they know how to sell in terms and most real estate professionals don’t know how to do that.
You can drive them, there’s no appraisal if you’re selling it with owner financing. So, if you’ve got a buyer and a seller that agree on a price and they agree on terms, That’s it. You can close it up in a week at a premium price, even if it wasn’t appraised for that. If the buyer has a long-term mindset, then I endorse that.
Right? So don’t forget that if, as if this continues, if this gets worse and you guys end up stuck in advances that you would rather close out and, and you know they need to liquidate the assets, but they’re clinging the price, you can pull from this community and pull a different class of real estate professional to move a market that has you stuck up we don’t just, make Lexus payments.
Here we are, we are solutions engineers. Yes, the the
Marc Harris: referrals go both ways and I agree. We do see, I mean, that, that’s the beauty of probate mastery that y’all, y’all bring to the table is you’re not the average realtor that folks get hooked up with. And. Then, when things slow, it’s easy to say, Oh, that’s just the market.
That’s the way it is. And again, it’s part of the fear and paralysis when things aren’t moving and instead of searching for solutions, everyone just shrugs and says, oh, what, what are you going to do? And that is when we come in and we, we, we can say, hey, I, I think you’re not exploring all your options.
Give these folks a.
Chad Corbett: Go to state professional.org. Since you, I didn’t explain that to you guys. There’s been a new logo behind me since we last spoke. We’ve launched a national directory for this reason, like really when B2B or b2c or C2 b, like when you need somebody who operates at, a different level of professionalism that you know you can trust.
Therefore, we’re doing this, and it’s cooled to see referrals going back and forth between attorneys and our members and from members too. So, the referrals are, you know, it could be probate cash, says, hey, you know, consumer, go here, set up a profile, find a real estate professional that that works.
You know that that does this at a different level. Or it could be probate cash to our company, to Magnum Opus saying, Hey, who’s your, who’s your best person? And you know, and. Chicago, Illinois. Like, who, who should, who should our seller connect with? But that’s the whole idea around the state professional.org is giving access to all the people who prescribe the, you know, the ethics and, and the, that kind of provide value first community focused service that we provide, deserve a spot in a, in a directory where we can find each other and the, and the public can find us.
So, it’s just, it’s just kind of soft launched and just out the door. But remember, you can find other vendors in there too. You can find, of course, certified probate experts that have, have taken mastery. But there are, you know, really attorneys that clean out crews, any, any vendor that we, that we’ve built on our vendor teams can be found here.
The Silver Tsunami and senior real estate
Chad Corbett: So, if you guys, if you need to have families who really need to liquidate positions, but they’re stuck with, with someone who’s not getting a job done, as long as that’s expired out, you know, we’d be happy to, to introduce them to a, a solutions provider. The other thing, I think what we see is, you know, the I, this, I’m in a, I’m at my home in, in West Virginia, and we have one long-term care facility here that just has a handful of beds.
The price has, I learned last week gone to $16,000 a bed. You’ve got a median income of senior citizens here of around 18,000 bucks. How is anyone supposed to do this? So, one of the other common use cases for your service is allowing people to. You know, receive to get, giving them access to the care they need.
And that’s something as, as retirement accounts take hits because they weren’t properly managed you know, it’s, everything’s upside down. Gold’s not doing what it’s supposed to. Bonds are just bonkers right now. Risk assets are risky as hell. So, families are nervous. Baby boomers don’t have time for recovery.
They’re listening to the news and it’s like, what if it does take 10 years to recover from this? So as, as they’re getting nervous, like they, you know, they, they’re hoarding that money, but as, as things change, they have to go into long-term care. They’re holding a house. One of the other use cases I see here is that you could, they could, you know, at $16,000 a month, your cash on hand isn’t going to go far.
According to the last Federal Reserve survey, the average senior citizen only had $24,000 in liquidity to their name. Imagine being 70 years old, facing $16,000 a month, and only having $24,000 to your name. In six weeks, you’re broke just because of your health. So now you’ve got the house. But you can’t wait because the market stalled out to get top dollar.
We need to get in there and fix it up and make it nicer and, and, you know, do these things. So that’s where I can see, you know, advanced companies becoming even more valuable when, when senior citizens’ liquidity has been depleted, there’s an immediate change, a health change, and then they have to go into long-term.
It. And then they’re like, What the hell am I going to do? Medicaid won’t pick up the bill because I got this house. And the house is very illiquid at this point because of the market conditions. So, are you seeing that? Like I see that as a really if it’s if you’re not seeing it, I expect you will Before long because we’ve got a rapidly aging population and a rapidly declining equities market that stands to take at least another leg.
And 70% of the disposable income belongs to that generation. So, they’re, they’re being, they’re in a liquidity crunch, like their liquidity disappearing while they’re getting older and their chances of health, health changes and, and life transitions is increasing at, at the same rate. Right. So, I’m curious what you’re seeing there, if you found that, that, that’s starting, if you’re seeing evidence of that already,
Karen Iturrino: We have seen a lot of spouses where the kids want to move them in. So, if they’re moving them to a facility, at least they haven’t explicitly said that to us, that just, it’s a personal and private matter.
So, I would understand. But we have seen them where the surviving spouse isn’t going to keep the home. And it’s the only asset, you know, they have access to stay there, a life estate if they could, if they wanted to, and they don’t want to, they want to cash it out. The closest thing I can think of is we had a gentleman who inherited a home, and he broke his neck and ended up having to be moved for medical reasons into an assisted living facility.
And so, he had to do it in advance so he could get into the medical facility that you need to go to. But you know, it’s, it’s rough. And I, when they cash out their homes, a lot of the things they do to help sell the home that they do express to us is they use the funds that they receive from us to hire the companies.
The cleanup companies that you mentioned that you’re, you have in your professional organization, hire someone to come paint. They use the money to get whoever is remaining in the home somewhere else to live so that they can sell it empty, turnkey, and move in.
But specific for senior citizens use like I said, if, if that’s been the case, they haven’t directly expressed that too, but I, I wouldn’t be surprised.
Dealing with evictions in inherited homes
Marc Harris: And, you know, we, we also see when in a tough market like this, somebody living in the home that shouldn’t be there and needs to be evicted. And you have the estate attorney working with the executor to try to any attorney’s fees to get the person living in the house out so the house can be sold.
So, we do see that from time to time as well. And if anyone ever comes across that when a house you are looking to sell, the executor wants a household, but they’re trying to get somebody evicted. And how, how y’all come across that and what, what you’re able to do with anything in that kind of situation
Chad Corbett: other than, well, like with most of them there’s, there’s a carrot and there’s a stick, right?
Yes. I usually lead with the carrot and, and suggest, but either way, the advance, like your service could be the carrot or the stick. And, and what I mean by that, guys are like, you can knock on the door and say, hey, Billy, you know that you’re going to get an inheritance. But until, but in, for that to happen, we must sell the house.
So, we’re going to go ahead and give you $10,000 to get, get on your feet and become in. Because mom and dad aren’t here to take care of you anymore, and we’re sure as hell not going to do it. If you want to sit here and drink all day, fine by me, do it somewhere else. So, you can give him the carrot of a $10,000 advance.
If he says no, then you go to the stick, you take that $10,000 give it to an attorney, and let the sheriff drag his ass out. And that’s the approach we take. We always try to lead with what’s best for all parties, so we always try not to use the stick. There are times and there are people that only can understand the stick, but in either case, I can see where for, for a lot of families and a lot of the experiences that I’ve had with it, they can’t, they don’t have a carrot or a stick without liquidity and the estate has assets.
But the assets are tied up by the heir who is causing the problems. So yes, that’s how we deal with it. Either way, you got to have cash for the carrot or cash for the stick to move forward and do what’s best for all parties involved. So that’s how we’ve handled that in the past.
Marc Harris: We’ve had those
situations and you’re right, it all comes back to liquidity. you can.
Hard to do anything without cash, which is why our business has stayed relevant all these years. That’s what we provide.
Chad Corbett: I mean, that’s what we teach in session one of Probate Mastery. I look, I show people the reality of probate and the reality of the demographics and the economics of, of the United States senior baby boomer class at this point.
And the urgency is created from a lack of planning, a lack of. Financial education and I don’t always blame the consumer for that. It the whole, the system is designed on debt and struggle. So not everyone is supposed to understand finance at the level we do, but that is an opportunity for us to reach these people, show them creative ways to gain access to liquidity, get what’s due to them from the estate, and then actually educate themselves and grow wealth.
Why critics of cash advances are wrong
Chad Corbett: I’ll just say you, there are critics of probate advanced companies, just like there are critics of pawn shops or auto loans, or you don’t have to go far to find anyone to criticize anything. But if the family is working with the right professionals, yes, they might have to pay a higher-than-normal finance charge because of the amount of risk associated with the advanced company.
But when they gain access to liquidity, if they’re working with a certified probate expert or someone who can show them how to turn them into a lender. So yes, I had to take a cash advance to sell, you know, the family home to close the probate, but now I got a $70,000 inheritance. So, what can I do with that?
Well, I can go spend it on a boat, a car, lottery tickets or whatever. Dumb stuff People usually spend an inheritance on. It’s depleted in the first 18 months at almost a, what? 98% is gone in 18 months. Or you can meet with somebody that has a book of cash buyers who are buying houses regardless of the market environment.
They’re savvy, they’re buying at the right prices. They’re looking for private capital at a 50% LTV, and they’ll pay 12 to 15%. So, you take someone who paid the finance fee to, for the probate advance, and then you replenish that by giving them finance fees from your investors or you’re in buyers.
You turn these, the families, the heirs. And that’s, that’s what we teach in probate mastery. The relationship doesn’t stop at a closing table unless you really just like leaving opportunities lying around and you want to work till you’re 95 years old. Like, we can lead these people into financial freedom, even if they don’t have liquidity and they’re stuck and, they have to pay higher prices to get access to liquidity.
Once you have cleared the deal, they come back to our people, and we can help show them how to grow that. I mean, you know, in the scenario I just said, I mean, I loan money on those terms and I double my money every 3.2 years. I double the principle on those terms. Rule 72, right? So, it, it’s, there’s for the critics out there, anyone who says, well, probate advances aren’t for me, I would never do that to my clients.
Like, have an open mind in a shut mouth sometimes and, and think about the ways that gain liquid. In a falling market, that liquidity is going to cost something if they can’t gain it independently. If they must ask somebody else to take the risk, for them to have liquidity, they have to pay the risk.
Right? Somebody has to, but once they’re on the other side of that and they have their inheritance and they have even more liquidity, then you as a professional can help turn them into a lender, turn them into an investor, turn them into, you know, a, a buyer or whatever, like, and that’s what we talk a lot about in session.
Of mastery. This is the level at which we’re training our people. And again, I’ll remind you if you have clients or customers who are stuck and need creative solutions or don’t intend to waste the inheritance, they will rather invest it than spend it, this is the conversation here.
Like literally looking at the consumer first and saying, what can we do with our professional skill set to get them a different outcome than they’ve gotten in the past? So those are just some of the ways I see that we can really, you know, a rising tide lifts all boats. So, in conjunction with what you are doing, we can do what we do, and everybody wins, right?
Marc Harris: We are huge fans of referring. Especially the least sophisticated folks. Sophisticated people to help them manage their money. You have other brands, we also have novation funding, which is a company that buys structured settlement payment rights. And we often have people who’ve been.
And, very serious tragic injuries or even death in there where they’ve gotten large, structured settlement payments to the death of family members or serious injuries to themselves. And they’re selling their future payment rights. Cause there, they’re stuck in an annuity. And they don’t have control over it.
And some of them need cash at once for some serious issues. Others don’t necessarily need the cash, but it’s just sitting in an annuity without a cost-of-living adjustment. They never had a choice but to take a lump sum and will. Purchase those payment rights and we refer them to wealth management advisors, and it’s always the first time they’ve ever had the advantage of wealth management advisors.
We talk about rule 72 all the time. And, you know, we, we put them to understand what they need to live on the benefits of home ownership versus renting. These are just people who’ve never had the advantage of being professional They don’t know what a fiduciary is. I think everybody’s out together, or you know, and it’s just, I get it.
A lot of people are out to get them. We see the horror stories and we understand the negative reputations because they’re always those people who take the money with the intent of using the wealth’s management advisor and blowing it in the casino. And they have more sneakers than they’ll ever have feet.
They you know, just. It. And then you see the sad stories because they’ve learned all the money. What’s never reported are the many, many, many success stories of generational wealth where their annuity was going to end. And you know, the same thing here if a beneficiary is, is taking the money with good purpose and follows through with it, it’s always a happy ending.
Always. So, that’s important with those referrals, with management advisors, those financial investors, that’s very important.
Chad Corbett: Yep. We’re all about having the vendor team, everything. I mean, both courses teach the same thing. Surround yourself with people who know more, like surround yourself with people smarter than you.
Look, I do, I got two of them on the screen now. Well guys, we’re, we’re at the top of the hour. I’m going to wrap up. Tell folks how they can get ahold of you if they have questions, or they want to talk through any of these scenarios. Like if they need to borrow Karen’s transaction engineering brain and say, here’s how you save this.
Like, how do they get, how do they get in touch with you?
Karen Iturrino: My email is Karen@probatecash.com.
Chad Corbett: 8. Such a Karen.
Karen Iturrino: Totally.
Marc Harris: My email is firstname.lastname@example.org. Karen and I are also incredibly responsive, so we know that when folks are calling us and when you’re talking about it.
The need for that money is not just real, but it’s often urgent. And so, we understand that even if it’s not getting the cash out the door, although we try to get the money out, believe it or not, within 24 hours we have a good, and, and the more professionals involved, the quicker, of course, we can get the money out.
So, we understand that quick decisions are everything, and even if the money’s not going out, at least peace of mind to know it’s being worked on and there’s light at the end of the tunnel, which is an incredible value.
Chad Corbett: Yes. Well guys, as always thanks for, thanks for joining our community and for the advice and the conversation everybody, you know where to find these guys.
Hopefully, this has given you some ideas. If you haven’t ever used a probate advance or, or work had had, then, your clients or customers haven’t had the need, hopefully, this at least helps you understand the way that can be used and how those ways can change as, as. You know, move through credit and debt cycles.
And hopefully, this was useful. So, until next time guys, thanks so much for your time today and we’ll, we’ll talk to you soon. All right. Thanks for having us,
Marc Harris: Chad. Take care.
Contact information and additional links:
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