Live Group Coaching #20: Refinancing vs. HELOCs vs. Reverse Mortgage vs. Buying Mom’s House vs. Living Trusts??
Episode #20 of Estate Professionals Mastermind Podcast
Join the Estate Professionals Mastermind group on Facebook to network with our community.
Podcast Streams and Download: How To Access Equity in Mom’s House | Handling Objections from Multiple Heirs | Live Probate Training (buzzsprout.com)
Video (YouTube): https://youtu.be/XR47xV4Gb8A
What’s In This Episode:
Chad and the Masterminds brainstorm tips, strategies, and tools for working less, earning more, and doing good. Josh and Chad brainstorm a video marketing strategy to use in paid Facebook ads with the purpose of driving membership to a Facebook community. Chad describes what landing pages and calls to action have worked best for him in conjunction with Facebook ads. Corey shares updates on the probate closings he has in his pipeline. Alex, Chad, and John Fraker discuss ways to access the equity in Mom’s house and the pros and cons of refinancing, HELOCs, reverse mortgages, and living trusts. John discusses his experience using TROs and injunctions to stop probate properties from going into foreclosure temporarily. Chad discusses tips for finding private lenders through probate and inheritance leads, and how to interview both community banks and small banks that hold portfolio loans to find the right lender for investments. Ronald asks about options for a surviving spouse when there is a reverse mortgage on the shared residence; Josh asks for advice handling objections from multiple heirs about how and when to sell the inherited property.
THIS WEEK’S CHALLENGE: Probate Mastery’s top performers are challenged to meet with small community banks (or even bigger banks in their area) and interview lenders until they find the right fit for their investment strategy.
Episode Time Stamps (YouTube Links):
0:00 How To Streamline and Scale Your Probate Real Estate Business
1:09 Probate Video Marketing Strategy for Paid Facebook Advertising
5:10 Brand Marketing: Choosing a Name That’s Scalable
7:05 Making Sure Your Video Advertising is Fully Accessible
7:34 Call to Actions and Customer Testimonials: Where To Incorporate Them
9:10 How To Name Your Facebook Group For Maximum Visibility
10:53 Corey Richardson’s Closing Opportunities
13:04 Accessing Equity: Refinancing vs. HELOCs vs. Reverse Mortgage vs. Buying Mom’s House vs Living Trusts
17:47 Reverse Mortgage and Foreclosure: Using TROs and Injunctions to Stop a Probate Property from going into Foreclosure?
24:10 Private Money Lenders: How Creative Financing Can Save A Family Equity and Provide Capital for Your Next Investment
26:02 Finding the Right Lender: Community Banks and Big Banks That Hold Portfolio Loans
28:40 Joint Tenancy and Reverse Mortgages: Surviving Spouse Options for Keeping or Selling the House
31:33 Handling Objections: How to Motivate Multiple Siblings to Sell
- Chad Corbetts On-Demand Probate Mastery Course
- Estate Professionals Mastermind Group (Facebook)
- Chad Corbett’s YouTube Channel
- Marketing Mindmap and Lead Gen Guide: 7 Tips for Consistent Lead Generation when Working Solo / as a Small Team – Probate Mastery
- Chad’s Recommended Booklist: Probate Mastery Reading List
- BadMLS Photos to Encourage Sellers To Pay For Professional Photographs: Bad MLS Photos | A collection of bad photos from the MLS | Page 2
- Building Facebook Communities: Progress in Action:
- This episode is Ronald following what he heard the previous week from Rosie and putting it into action (with the facebook group) https://probatemastery.com/probate-mastery-group-training-15
- This was Rosie the week before that. https://probatemastery.com/probate-mastery-group-training-14/
- Check out Ronald Cram’s Facebook Community, Phoenix Life Transitions https://www.facebook.com/groups/826580981576292
SEGMENT TRANSCRIPTS: (Download PDF of Full Transcript)
How To Streamline and Scale Your Probate Real Estate Business
Everybody do the weekly probate mastery group coaching co if you’re on Facebook, just keep in mind. We don’t see your comments, even though Katt’s trying to watch. So this is all about you guys. How can we help you? Josh Foster You made it buddy. Hey, every time man, I’m always tied up at this time, so I made time to be here.
Good to see you brother. So, two things. First, I want to, uh, I know everybody enjoys this group, but I want to thank you again for all the value that you bring. I think I started taking your course about two years ago and had I not done that. I was doing a lot of probate stuff already. But being able to streamline it and scale it.
That was the missing piece of my puzzle. And man, I want to thank you. I just closed the deal. I’m in Louisiana, the sellers were in Michigan. We just settled the estate for their late son. And I got a glowing review. They’re older, the executors were elderly, they don’t have a Google account, so they emailed me, but we’ve copied and pasted it, posted it everywhere.
So, I just wanted to say thank you for that.
Probate Video Marketing Strategy for Paid Facebook Advertising
And I have a quick question. I want to do about a one, a 30 second, one-minute video to advertise in front of my probate audience. I want to get that out in front. I kind of looked at what you posted, wanting to get an idea of, you know, how do I Louisiana’s called succession everywhere else is called probate.
So I want to kind of call it both. And I want to create a community and I’m trying to come up with a name, you know, something where people know what it is and where the resources are. Yeah, sure. we’re talking about paid traffic, right? Yes. I’d like to run my paid traffic through my community.
You know, I want to create a group and then, you know, and run that, run the ads. I’ve got the probate list downloaded already from all my li all, all my leads I’ve ever purchased through probate. I’ve got that and I want to run that because what we’ve run into, we got hit with two major hurricanes and I start, I think, five natural disasters in eight months or something.
So a lot of our probate stuff, I’m just now starting to see it break loose again, where people’s getting things ready to go back and get back on track to sell. Okay. So what is what I usually suggest like for, for a paid campaign? Like if you’re going to, you know, put something in front of like, if, if this isn’t part of your content strategy, but part of your paid ad strategy, a video in front of your local courthouse, whether they’re in a trust succession or probate success.
They have been there, right? That’s a familiar building. So the recipe is interrupt, engage, educate, and then, you know, ask. So we want to interrupt them wherever they are. Facebook’s a very distracting place. So the interruptive piece that, that backdrop of having the county courthouse as part of the interruption and get them to pay attention and you can, you know, Your basic message.
There is, hi, my name is Josh foster. I’m standing somewhere. You’re probably familiar with, this is the, you know, whatever parish courthouse. And we come down here once a month to meet with the probate clerk, to find out who actually can use or the succession Clark, whatever that title is. But who in our community, we, we, you know, we need to be reaching and you’re seeing this.
Because you’ve been identified as somebody that we, that our team can help. So if you want to stick around for just a little bit longer, I’ll tell you more about what we do. You can also read below if you’d rather see that, and then just explain your service pitch. It’s just like you would to a red hot referral.
If that family you just helped called you and said Josh, could you please do what you did for us for this person? But we haven’t told them what you do. Can you just explain it to them? And five minutes before they go to, you know, And like create your little mental challenges like that for yourself. How would I speak to a referral from that, that client, that happy client?
And if I only had three minutes to do that before they had to rush away and I wanted to make sure that they, they couldn’t wait to call me back after that very minute, after whatever they were rushing away to, that’s a pretty good mental challenge to help you really get your best video. Yeah. Elevator speech.
So I thought about it at the beginning of it, Blow blasting at the very beginning, like an inherited property question mark, or inherited headache. So what you can do is a bar above on a bar below, and then your video framed in the metal. So that’s showing anytime if they start watching it five seconds in or 20 seconds.
Either way you’ve got that black or white above or below, and you could use your company, you could use exit colors, like you can use the T or whatever, but just basically a horizontal bar at the top horizontal bar at the bottom. And then your copy, your, your question should be on top, you know? probating an estate in Louisiana at the question at the top.
Did you know that there’s a social enterprise that will help you for free at the bottom? Something like that. Okay. But the idea is, so you run that to run that, you know, upload it natively to Facebook, go ahead and upload it natively to YouTube.
Brand Marketing: Choosing a Name That’s Scalable
You may as well start a YouTube channel. That’s consistent with your Facebook group name as far as names.
There’s not a lot of search traffic. Probate or succession or anything else. So as far as a soft brand, what we find the work well is the word transition. It also gives you a scalable brand. So if your group ultimately welcomes people who are going through a divorce situation or guardianship or other big life transitions that forced decisions to sell real estate, then you’ve got a scalable brand.
So rather than being like the, you know, the south new Orleans parish, probate team, or succession team, You can be Louisiana, Louisiana transitions, or Louisiana life transitions, or what did you think about the word shift? I think it’s abrupt. Like I did a series called shift happens and that really got, that, got a lot of attention.
it was relevant because it was, I was COVID was setting on and we were making market predictions before the money printing press started. So it was really good in that context and the probate con I’m not sure about here. If it’s that relevant to your audience. Okay. What is relevant to them?
As you know, they’re not aware that a resource like you have is in the community because there’s just, there’s just no people haven’t done it. Right? Exactly. So you’ve got to think what, what is their mindset? What are their biggest struggles? Not like the fear of messing up and not understanding the process are probably their biggest fears and managing that fear while being under emotional distress.
So while mourning or grieving so think of trigger words like Relax, but that’s why I transitioned. I’d say it’s kind of a softer brand touch because it’s Louisiana transitions versus Louisiana succession group. That’s just kind of cold and it’s not that emotional.
Yeah. So anything that would appeal to that, their emotional state. We’ve had really good success with the transition as, as part of that brand and whatever your locality is.
How To Name Your Facebook Group For Maximum Visibility
I think you take it for granted in your explanations, but you frequently gave Josh the example of Louisiana succession help, Louisiana transition services.
Don’t underestimate the importance of leading with the locale you serve. Especially since you’re trying to come up with the name for your Facebook community. Facebook very much reads left to right when you search a term. So the first word you search is going to be the most prominent thing. If you were to go to Facebook right now and type um, you guys have parishes in Louisiana.
That’s great. So if you were to go to your toolbar in Facebook and search the name of the parish, you want to work in, that’s going to trigger a lot of results. And it’s something that people search a lot more frequently than probate, inheritance, property. And it gets you at least in the right geographic area of where you want to connect with people.
So anyone thinking about their Facebook group name, try to work that general market location as one of the first leading words of your title. Perfect. So we’re in Southwest Louisiana and it’s designated, or, you know, most of the time, SWE LA that’s kind of the region of five parish region that is that we serve here.
Then that’s common amongst local, you know, that’s, that’s common you’ll hear it in ads and everything. Talk about the SW LA area. Yep. Just like Maryland, Virginia. That’s the DMV area. So whatever people are familiar with saying that’s what should be in the title of your Facebook group? Because that’s what people will use themselves.
Well, Josh, when you get it all set up if you don’t mind dropping a link in the community, so other people can, can see what you actually ended up with will do, man. And I want to thank the guy that did Phoenix life transitions. His, I know his page is new or his group is new, but he’s got some great stuff over there.
Oh yeah. Ron. Okay.
Corey Richardson’s Probate Opportunities
Corey Richardson, what are you going to do with all that money you made last week?
Yeah. So we got a four, the five are pending right now. So about two weeks closing. Can’t complain. Can’t complain. Have you picked out your new truck?
hopefully, we’ll be able to do an assignment now. That’s my next plan. Cool. you guys have been working with me on that and that’s hopefully in the cards soon. Yeah. Awesome. And you’ve identified the opportunity. He’s still looking for one, still looking for one. Yeah, somewhere under half a million.
The price. Doesn’t matter if you don’t have to close it. That’s true. I’ve seen guys make $2 million assignment fees and never spend a penny on mobile home parks, commercial-like strip centers. So don’t let the price intimidate you an assignment as an assignment, as long as you can, you know, as long as you can, it doesn’t have to be a simultaneous close.
There shouldn’t be any capital cost to you. You’re in a higher-priced market and you can wholesale those big deals. I had a friend just two days ago, made 500. And I think it was 548 was the assignment fee on a house in California. Wow. That’s that’s big.
Yeah, sometimes those deals come. Everything I’ve had so far is just you know, they wanted the most money that they can get on the market. So it’s always leaning that way up here. There are a few houses that are not financeable. So I think those will be an easier way to go for sure.
So, Thanks for, thanks for the update, Corey, and congrats on four pending. That’s awesome. Thank you, John Fraker. Good to see your face here.
How about you? I’m doing good. Thanks. Are you, you look like you’re back in the office, or are you still at home? No home office.
Everything keeps going back. Yeah. Greater restriction. So I’m just staying at home just to be safe about it. Yeah. I decided to just go to Washington and hide in the woods. Nice. If you ever go south for the winter, bruh, I thought I was making it to Louisana at the end of this past winter. And it’s a, how would you say that living in an RV is a very dynamic lifestyle. Nothing goes as planned, but um, yeah, I will I’ll see if I can get down there and it looks like I’m probably, if, if NAR convention actually happens, it looks like I’ll be there with the exit gang.
Awesome. All right. Looks like Alex has something. Jump in there.
Accessing Equity: Refinancing vs. HELOCs vs. Reverse Mortgage vs. Buying Mom’s House vs Living Trusts
Okay. I, um, My mom just paid her property off. I’m trying to get her, prepare her to avoid probate cause my dad just passed away in December. He didn’t have any Assets are or anything that’s been abandoned sold it which she wants to do. She has her property paid off as she wants to invest in other properties.
But can’t because she has she’s on SSI or retirement. And she’s not, she doesn’t make enough. So she wants to add my brother’s name to the property. And I was wondering, how can I do that without making things difficult to access the equity or refinance because I heard, if you do that, it would make it more difficult.
If you add a sibling or family member to the uh, to the property. Wait, you’re saying she wants to access the equity in the home. But she can’t get her to get approved for a refi loan because of her fixed income. Yes, sir. I would talk to more refi lenders talk to refi lenders first.
Yeah. Tomorrow you might have to talk to a handful. Banks are, I mean, hell they’re paying us to make money right now. Okay. you should be able to find somebody and especially in this part of a market cycle, that’s comfortable writing her a HELOC. A lot of HELOC lenders, like the one that I use that may or may not work.
Where are you? Home equity line of credit is what I mean Houston, Texas. Yes. I don’t know the first citizen’s bank. I think they’ve bought some banks in Texas, but uh, they’ll give me a 90 LTV prime plus a quarter, which is a fantastic loan, right. And it’s way better than a reverse mortgage. The other option for her is a reverse mortgage, but it’s probably gonna end up stripping equity out that you guys won’t get.
You’ll have that to deal with at the end. The other option you could do is if you guys are going to inherit the house and you guys are creditworthy, why don’t you and your brother buy your mom’s house? Yeah, I was thinking that also. You’re going to get it back, right?
Yeah, yeah. Sure. Give her an 80% offer, like, cause if she’s going to get an 80% HELOC then she’s going to pay interest on that cash. You guys are ultimately going to end up with the property anyway. So why don’t the two of you offer, give her a contract for 80% of the market value? That’s your interest in your money over time?
And when she passes away, you guys. And you get, you get your money back, you get to see your return. Awesome. Awesome. My, I was kind of thinking about that also, but I was talking to a lender that she put in front of me who was, gave me that idea about putting my brother’s name on the property. So, but yeah, I mean, that’s awesome that you said that.
Cause I was kinda like thinking that too, but I didn’t know if I was like going too far down. I mean, the other benefit that you’re going to have with that is when, and if she ever has to go under Medicaid care, you’re stripping, you’re taking the assets.
So that starts a five-year window of the five-year clock. Where if in the next five years she has to have Medicaid pay for medical bills, then you’re going to have to step up and. Use a different strategy. And there are, there are strategies for that. You can basically pay Medicaid 60% of that property value and then buy a whole life insurance policy against your mother for more than what you advanced, you know, to cover that, that Medicaid costs.
But if she, if, if it’s after five years, then they will, they’ll pick up her medical bills that the home won’t be in her name anymore. Now, whatever she bought with the cash could have to be liquidated, but the house will. Yeah. So I think all things considered and I like to hear John agrees with me. I think the best move you have is to, for you guys to just go ahead and buy the house from her.
And the other question, you don’t have to answer this publicly if you don’t want, well, let me just, I won’t put you on the spot. That way. If her net worth is worth, if she’s worth more than a half, a million bucks, you should probably just set up a living trust for, in addition to that, Yeah, I was, I was talking to a lawyer yesterday about, did I already have set up an appointment to do a living trust also.
Her net worth her properties like, I think it’s close to 200, maybe a little bit over 200. Yeah. She has other assets, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you got to look at the car like living trust makes sense for damn near everyone. But all things considered. I do think you guys are going ahead and buying the home as long as she’s comfortable with that.
And I would add to that if she’s not comfortable then you guys bought a house and give her a life estate. So then she can be comfortable. Even if, if you and your brother get wrapped up a, in a divorce or a bad car accident, and someone comes after your assets because you weren’t smart enough to have trust. If anything would ever happen the home won’t get taken from her because it’s something outside of her control. So you might consider just you two buy it and give her a lifetime estate, or you give her a lease. Great. So she has a legal right to talk about the property and someone can’t throw her out.
All right. Awesome. That was a real quick chat also. I just wanted to thank you for, this program. I mean, These meetings all in themselves, I would have paid just to have these meetings and listen to all the great information, you know, from all the people here from like David and everyone else.
So thank you all cool, man. Well, thanks for the compliment. Kat, go ahead and send Alex an invoice, please.
Reverse Mortgage and Foreclosure: Using TROs and Injunctions to Stop a Probate Property from going into Foreclosure?
I want to give John an opportunity to correct me or add or anything, any, like what advice do you have for Alex? You can agree with me too if you agree. Agree. Just kidding. Yeah. I mean, number one thing that I ask people when someone says, but my brother’s name on the deed or something on the house or whatever
important to get crystal clear on what we’re talking about. . So people, you know, clients get elderly, they don’t have a trust. They add their son or daughter to a bank account. If it’s just for the purpose of writing checks, that’s one thing. But if you add somebody to a deed and it’s like a joint tendency, you got to, you got a whole bunch of issues to address and joint tenancy in my, you know, 20 plus years of doing this joint tendency is like the most powerful thing.
And nobody understands at all how it works. You know, it’s interesting, you’re talking about the Medicaid planning. When I started in the early two-thousands, California law actually allowed your entire residence, a hundred percent of the equity in your residence to be exempted excluded for Medicaid purposes.
And so back then, like all good things got taken away, but in the beginning, it was a lot of attorneys. Did irrevocable trusts a specific type of Medicaid trust people put their house into it, transfer it effectively through the trust to their kids, maintain that lifetime right of living in it. Which was actually somebody gets a document in order to prove that it wasn’t a gift and trigger any of the look-backs.
You actually had to sign a lifetime right of return to the property, even if the parents physically could never return. And so people were doing that, it got real abused. There are some law firms that were doing mills people doing it with having no understanding as to why, like, you know, we had one lady, her she’s like my dad went to one of those seminars and put their $3 million houses in Saratoga
in the Medicaid trust. And I was like, for what purpose? Just like for Medicaid, I’m like your family is a $3 million house. Are you saying you don’t have enough healthcare? People, you know, the tail is starting to wag the dog at that point.
And that was a big mess. So in California, I don’t know about Texas. It’s important to consult with an attorney and, you know, in each state for the Medicaid law, California, they reduced, I think it’s about half a million of equity that you can shield from Medicaid, look back. But beyond that, you gotta get you you know, consult with an attorney, figure out what your timeframes are, how many months of exclusion you, if you transfer an asset like that.
That’s one way of doing it. yeah, Home equity lines of credit obviously are better than reverse mortgages. Reverse mortgages in our industry are like the annoying stepchild because people go out and then when the people die like if you be a traditional mortgage, they will just wait to get repaid.
Like as long as you’re making that normal payment to Wells Fargo, B of a, or whatever on your mortgage, they don’t care. They’re not going to hassle you when somebody dies, but a reverse mortgage or like the first people to care. So I have, I have an estate right now. They have. A little under 3 million of real estate, two different homes here in Santa Clara county.
One of them has a reverse mortgage. There’s no cash. You just pay it off. And the reverse mortgage, as the lady died, she had no kids. She died, intestate, with no documents and no near relatives. Like her first cousin is actually the one administering the estate and we had to like speed their approval, just so that the reverse mortgage people didn’t try to foreclose on the house.
And like their interest is maybe 20,000. 25%, but they can absolutely foreclose on the entire house just to get their money back. And that’s why I tell people if you use them, they’re the last resort, but understand what comes with that. If you don’t have a check that you can write to them to give them their money back, you’d better come up with a game plan, a real fast.
Yep. That’s the same advice I give. So, John, I’m curious, I know in your experience with that, have you ever been able to use to successfully file an injunction to stop a foreclosure or did it just, it just went. Calif again, every state is completely different on how they handle mortgages and that we are a trusted state.
They have a statutory right to foreclose. And so what I always tell people, and we got everyone got a real Ph.D. from 2008 to 2000. In California, we actually got a heads up in 2007. We had a case that started to go south and started going to foreclosure in 2007.
And the rule is that probate is supposed to work like bankruptcy, right? All your creditors line up in an orderly manner and they get paid off in order, including uncles. And the franchise tax board. Those are not patient creditors outside of probate, but everybody has to wait their turn. Except in California law, the mortgage company has a statutory right to foreclose.
They can jump in line and blow everything up. So those types of arrangements has to be handled with extreme care. In, in 2008, 2009, 2010, that’s literally every probate attorney had to master getting yourself a TRO against them, an injunction to stop it, slow it, but it only buys you so much time. Once that expires, they can go ahead and move it.
so it got real nasty there for a bit, the entire state’s going insolvent because nobody could pay off the mortgage and they come in and destroy all the equity in the property. They charge you with their lawyer fees. They’re all there, all their fees and everything. And, you know, I had one lady, This is before I was doing real estate and she was like, no, I’m going to hold onto it. And they were like, foreclose. We basically, my business partner walked into court, told the judge, all we need is 30 days to sell this. And the judge, like, why shouldn’t I just remove the restraining order now?
And like, honestly, the only reason the judge didn’t just blow it up is that he was, you know, having compassion on this lady and the judge looked directly at the client and addressed her directly, which they almost never do. And so this is your last chance- get it sold, pay these people off because I’m letting this thing lapse shortly.
And we walk out in the hallway or Leon walking down the hallway and she’s like, oh, I don’t want to sell it. I’m going to declare bankruptcy in this absolute train wreck where she was determined to shoot herself in the foot.
So. ask how quickly the reverse mortgage companies move to start the foreclosure proceedings. It’s typically, I mean, in most states and most, most of those documents, it’s 180 days that they have the right to move, to recover. You can even wholesale those and you can even flip those and you can make them subject to, but you damn well better be aware of the timelines and you better be aware, of foreclosure laws and your state and how that process works. And in my experience, at least 80% of heirs have a home.
A reverse mortgage and, you know, limited equity, even if there is equity they’ll most often times do what John was like, the story he was just telling they’ll shoot themselves in the foot, put their head in the sand. They ended up just letting it go. So a lot of them do go to foreclosure when they wouldn’t have had to So if we can get them to engage with us and we understand, and if you want to learn more about them, you can search for HECM loans and reverse mortgage lending, and really learn that the ins and outs of those. The other thing that I thought of that I don’t think I’ve talked about in quite a while.
Private Money Lenders: How Creative Financing Can Save A Family Equity and Provide Capital for Your Next Investment
Like you guys imagine how many of you are going to encounter situations like ours? How many of these families are you going to work with that spouse A passes away spouse B is sitting on a house with a ton of equity. And that equity is being unused. What if we encouraged every one of those situations, every one of those people to access their equity through a HELOC or other, other creative measures like we’ve been discussing to free up capital.
And if they don’t want to invest the capital, then you borrow it from them. Or have your investors borrow from them, make them first mortgage lenders? Like you can turn the survivors of these estates should be one of your, your top private, private capital sources. And Cory, that was kind of pointed at you too, man.
Like if, if you want to do some wholesaling and you want to do more investing, you’re in a high net worth area. So when you cash these folks out, you should have the courage to look at it as a leader, but you should, you should know exactly what they intend to do or not do with money, because if they’re just going to leave it to sit and the family coffers, or if spouse a pass and the equities tapped in the house always find out what they’re going to do with the equity because that gives us another opportunity to send a referral or to capitalize our next day.
maybe we get them to an estate planning attorney. Maybe we get them to a registered investment advisor. Maybe we take them to the attorney’s office and turn them into private money lenders. But when you find these situations, just because of house transferred or spouse died, and spouse B doesn’t want to sell it doesn’t mean you can’t provide an extreme amount of value to them and monetize that.
So just a reminder that there’s a lot more that you know, that we can do than we typically discuss on any given call. Those are things we talk about mastery, but just a reminder for anyone who was intrigued by this conversation, like it’s happening in your business too.
Finding the Right Lender: Community Banks and Big Banks That Hold Portfolio Loans
I have a question. When you were saying about the hilar instead of the reverse mortgage. What happens if they’re older on a fixed income and they don’t qualify, do they have to qualify it as a household? It depends on the lender. So right now you’ve got very loose. I mean, it’s, it’s the government stepping up to buy a lot of paper, so mortgage companies, and now these are typically like, if it’s a first position, HELOC, then a community bank is going to portfolio that loan.
It’s not going to be sold on the secondary market. So that’s why I say you may have to interview several lenders. And what I mean by a community bank. Typically for me, that’s a bank that’s inside this town or this, this region, but no bigger, like under the $3 billion bank. And they, large servicers are coming around to like, like Atlantic bay mortgage is the largest lent mortgage company in Virginia.
And they’ve expanded their footprint, but they. Fully almost, I think it was 51% of their loans are a portfolio, meaning they’re not looking to sell on the secondary market. So lenders like that, who don’t have to, it’s a non-QM loan, right? They’re not looking for a secondary market buyer. They will do loans like that.
So if you go to a community bank and you say, look, here’s the CA, and here’s the other thing. If you do hit snags out, If your mom has cash, like if she has cash and another bank if that bank won’t do the loan, take the damn cash, put it with a community bank, and say, listen, here’s $10,000. I’d like to I’ll open.
I’ll give you a one-year CD with this 10 grand. If you give me hell. Yeah. They’re getting nine to one leverage on the money and you’re off offering to pay the interest and not ask for any on your own or you know, a minuscule amount on the CD. So there are little finance tricks like this, and it’s, it’s just I find. What your mortgage banker says, isn’t always the whole story. Like they only know what they know. A lot of times they work in their blue box and anything that gets outside of that box scares the shit out of them, right? Like most brokers. So you may have to interview some banks and actually ask for what you want.
You know, if we put $10,000 in a CD, we both know that you can lend that out as a hundred thousand dollars. So I’ll give you $10,000. You give my mom a hundred thousand dollar line of credit against the house. You get the first-position mortgage. If we don’t do what we say, you win both ways. You got our money in our equity, then.
you just have to be assertive and not take what the first person tells you that at face value all the time, but smaller banks are easy to work with, but sometimes the biggest, you know, if, if they, if their portfolio and a lot of paper, they’ll get creative with you too.
Thank you. Yeah. Good stuff. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thanks for bringing that up, Alex. Interesting topic.
Joint Tenancy and Reverse Mortgages: Surviving Spouse Options for Keeping or Selling the House
Ronald. I see your hand up, man. Sorry, I gave, I almost gave all your credit away earlier. You got, you got called out for doing a good job on your Facebook group and your uh, your attorney.
Yeah, right before you came in like everybody was singing your praise can’t even dance. I was like, man, I missed that. Oh wow. Cutting that part out of the recording. So you can see me dance it’s cause I cut it out. That’s funny. Yeah, so actually I have a question about this same thing I’m trying to figure out.
Cause me, my uncle just passed away yesterday and I’m concerned about my aunt. they uh, lived in California for my aunt, still does. And I know that he had a reverse mortgage on the home and I’m, a little bit concerned about my aunt that at this point, does she intend to stay in the home?
I’m not sure what she’s, she’s her name on the note. I don’t even know that. If your name’s on the note, you’re okay. Because she’s still occupying the property, the fine print. And the note will say whenever the note holder, whenever the mortgagee no longer lives at resides in the property that starts the clock.
Okay. And somebody just offered to look it up for you. If you’d like to give the names of whoever is on zoom as an iPhone. If you want to join us on the mic. Oh, that’s Daniel. Yeah. So Daniel Mourey’s offering to help you. Look at, look up the mortgage. Daniel went, can I call you when the call is over?
What’s your phone number? 8 6 7, 5, 3 0 9 yang. It was going through at least, at least half of you were thinking that
all right you see it in the chat. 6, 7 3 1 2, 1. So chances are you don’t have a ticking clock if she was on the note like you’ll be okay until she has to vacate the property. But this is a really good time to be talking about what’s the. Right. What happens? What happens when you do have to move in with somebody or when you do have to give this up and even move into an apartment?
We have a 180-day window that was probably enough time to sell and there’s probably equity there, but it’s a damn good reason to have the discussion and get a plan in place. So make sure, because a lot of folks, what I find a lot of kids are super pissed that their parents signed a reverse mortgage.
And the surviving spouse usually doesn’t understand what was signed. And they’re like, well, what do you mean? You know, what do you mean? Not, I can’t move the animals. My daughter, I’m like, well, you have to sell the house. If that’s what you’re going to do, or you have to find a way to pay off that mortgage.
And they’re like, well, I don’t have that kind of cash. I’m like, then you have to sell the house. So a lot of folks don’t understand what they sign. So this is a great way to broach that conversation and, and reminder, Hey, this is attached to the house. Is there a way you can pay it off to get this? You know, and get out from under it.
Otherwise, as John said, a lot of times they will very quickly rack up penalties, legal fees, all kinds of bullshit, and just strip out the equity from the state. Okay. Good to know. Thank you so much.
Handling Objections: How to Motivate Multiple Siblings to Sell
All right. I got a quick question. I went out on an appointment yesterday and met with a gentleman. There are three heirs involved in this estate. They all three are co-executors love that when that happens, but they’re all three coats activity. He of course lives the closest to the property.
So he’s of course the one taking care of it. The other two sisters live out of town, live one lives out of state. They’re dragging to get the house cleaned out. He’s ready to, he’s done he’s over with it. He’s tired of mowing the grass, paying someone to do. It’s in a rural area. It’s got some acres with, it has some hurricane damage.
The issue is, and this is what I’m telling him and he’s all for it, but we’ve got to get this house on the market. He needed to have it on the market last month, we need to get it. So I told him, you know, we’re selling, we’re selling a little mini farm or a little mini ranch. It’s easier to sell that and we want to sell it.
When we got green grass to photograph and, you know, people can go out there and just envision it. It’s harder to do that in the wintertime. So is there a tactic that we can use to get the sisters on board with go ahead and cleaning the property out? I even told him, look, I’ve got a 3d camera.
I’ll go room to room. And they can start picking the crap that they want. We’ll set it aside, the rest We’ll we’ll have it moved out. We’ll hire someone to come in and clean it out. You know, send them a letter. Hey, this I’m moving forward. Y’all want to get this done. Let’s go. What was there another tactic I’m missing?
I need to get them on the phone first. Are they looking for retail? They, yeah, I think, I don’t think he’s looking for retail, but I think the two sisters were looking for retail. Cause this is a perfect opportunity. Like these are the best ones to buy. Then, when you have scattered heirship like there’s scattered responsibility, typically the kids will start fighting and then they get worn out and the brother’s tired of mowing, and this is where our cash offer on the, on the table, gets signed.
Right. So if you have any interest in purchasing it, you probably have a pretty good prospect that you could buy this one at a discount. Yup. If that’s not the case if they want to go retail and you feel like that’s the best course for them. One of the things I’ve done to overcome the objection of personal property is you know, those little, yard sale stickers, like the, you have green, blue, red let’s just go with a stoplight.
Let’s go with green, yellow, red, and you should schedule a time to do a face-to-face. FaceTime or whatever, if zoom or whatever, they can all connect on. Make sure you take a light and everything’s well lit. And I would walk through the house and say, listen, you know, we’ve, if we’re going to get this sold for the retail price you insist on having, I need drone photography, I need well lit clean spaces, and look up the statistics of what photography does.
Like, you know, the ROI on, on good photography versus bad photography or no photography, and basically say, listen, by not allowing me to get in there and get this house cleaned out and get good photography at this time of the year, you’re likely going to cost yourself X number of dollars.
And I just want to be clear with you guys. That’s not my fault. I’m still going to work with you regardless, but if you trust me to lead you through this, I need you to trust me and listen. So let’s go through, let’s do a written inventory. Let’s put red stickers on everything. That’s an heirloom that will not be sold.
Yellow stickers on everything that can be sold and red stickers on everything or green stickers on everything. That’s ready to go to the dump Goodwill or salvation army, and let’s get this started and hold them accountable to it. That you can have photography and let them know that you’ve already, prepaid for that photography and it’s going to hurt you harm.
You’re trying to help them. So don’t harm me because I’ve already paid this guy to be here on the 17th. And that’s what I would use to kind of just get them out of the quicksand, take away the objections we’ve got. You know, we have our recorded video inventory. We have a written inventory list. We have a staging area and we have a clean house.
That’s going to show well, Perfect. Thank you. Yep.
Yeah. Katt had a good suggestion. She said, show them bad MLS photos .com and ask if they want to pay top if they want top dollar or not.
So, all right. Does anybody else have anything you want to cover today? If not, I’ll let you get back to work.
Well guys, listen, thanks so much. We have these, these are just always the best conversations. Lots of interesting talk conversations today. Hopefully, you got some ideas, and like, Ooh, I got to put that on my list.
But again, thanks for being part of our community guys. Always participating. John David, Lynette all the regulars. Steve thanks. Thanks for everybody being here. And we’ll, we’ll talk to you soon.
About the Author
Katt is an expert in probate marketing and helps entrepreneurs build businesses in the probate space. She is the co-founder of the Estate Professionals Mastermind podcast, which has become the most widely-shared probate real estate podcast. She also writes training content for ProbateMastery.com and a weekly LinkedIn newsletter followed by over 9000 professionals. You can reach her on Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn.