Weekly Live Probate Training for the Estate Professionals Mastermind – Probate Podcast
Chad Corbett hosts episode 38 as Certified Probate Experts share their probate real estate tips and questions.
Probate leads are a profit-generating asset and even a small amount of leads each month can outperform the ROI of other real estate niches. In this episode, probate real estate expert Chad Corbett discusses how real estate professionals can monetize any real estate sales conversation, even with probate prospects that have already sold the inherited property. Listen to learn how probate agents and investors can improve their bottom line, get solid in their 2022 probate business and marketing plan, and close more deals with a few simple real estate sales techniques.
Episode #38 of Estate Professionals Mastermind – Probate Podcast
Join the Estate Professionals Mastermind Facebook group for real estate networking, scripts role-play, high-energy community support, and bite-sized real estate tips.
THIS WEEK’S BONUS CHALLENGE: Try out Napoleon Hill’s 28-Question self-analysis challenge and use it in your 2022 business planning.
Training Topics In This Probate Podcast Episode (YouTube Links):
0:00 28 Questions every entrepreneur should ask themselves
(Business Planning & Forecasting)
1:12 What is a probate lead worth in dollars?
6:35 What to say instead of “Are you thinking about selling?”
(Probate Sales Language & Techniques)
9:31 How to sell an unstaged home: Creating an imagined experience
(Sales Language & Techniques)
10:34 How to manage your real estate business when you’re a perfectionist
(Business Planning & Forecasting)
12:33 Sales language tips: Don’t use the word “Why”
(Sales Language & Techniques)
14:29 Why prospects ghost and how to close the deal
25:23 “Hello, are you a widow?” How to handle call reluctance for widows in probate
30:13 Can your own trust advisor give you referrals?
30:39 Year 4 of my 5-year probate business plan
33:41 The best probate marketing letters that worked for me
36:31 When should you stop calling a lead who says ‘I’m not interested’?
(Probate script ideas)
39:12 How to monetize every real estate conversation
(Advanced Sales Techniques)
42:27 Is Probate Plus worth it in 2022?
- Join Estate Professionals Mastermind Group (Facebook)
- Take Chad’s Probate Course and get Certified in Probate Real Estate
- READING RECOMMENDATIONS: Probate Mastery Reading List
- Learn Probate, Real Estate Investing, Creative Finance, and more on our YouTube Channel
- Relevant content:
- 7 things to do at probate court besides pull probate lead lists – Probate Mastery
- Probate Attorney Prospecting Plan: Group Coaching #11: Real Estate Agents and Investors Share Why Attorneys Send THEM Deals. – Probate Mastery
- Probate Lead Companies Compared How to Find Probate Leads Online – PLUS Probate lead company reviews for Real Estate Professionals
- Recent Training Content:
- Episode 36: Group Probate Coaching: Infinite banking, trusts in probate, and the #1 thing to include in your probate marketing letters
- Episode 37: Group Probate Coaching: Making cash offers fast, solving problems with probate real estate deals, and wholesaling ethics
- How to prospect assisted living professionals for real estate referrals – Probate Mastery
- How to get probate leads for your Estate Sale business
- How to handle cost objections and pay vendors for probate real estate services
- Propstream trial (No longer offering MLS sold data append): PropStream Investment Software (propstreampro.com)
- Napoleon Hill (Think and Grow Rich) – Self-Analysis questions to frame your 2022 business path. https://www.success.com/napoleon-hills-28-self-analysis-questions/
PROBATE TRAINING SESSION TRANSCRIPTS: (Download PDF of Full Transcript)
28 Questions every entrepreneur should ask themselves (Business Planning & Forecasting)
Welcome everybody to the first probate mastery group coaching call 2022. I didn’t have a theme prepared for the day, but something I did for myself, me, over the weekend. Each year I have a recurring event on the calendar to do the self-image story from think and grow rich, a book that I read years ago.
If you guys haven’t read, think and grow rich by Napoleon hill, it’s a timeless business class. In there what he suggests is at the beginning of each year, you actuall28 questions. If you haven’t done any end of 2021 analysis and beginning of 2022 planning, that’s something that just gets you in that mindset. It’s really simple. It probably takes a half an hour to, I mean, it could take a lot longer. The more honest you are, the faster it goes, quite frankly.
And what I’ve found is I come up short like it’s a good way to see, did you provide the amount of service that. Thank you should have. So just be honest with yourself. Don’t overthink it. But if you haven’t done anything, any end-of-year or beginning of your analysis and planning might be something that will get your creative juices flowing and get you thinking about that.
Are some probate leads better than others? (Marketing ROI)
Looks like Kris has a question. Kris jumped on whenever you’re ready.
Hi. I just finished probate mastery Monday, And I have a question about the number of leads per county and what I’m going to need to generate enough business. So the county in which I live and work runs about 17 leads per month, which isn’t very many, but the adjacent county has 50.
To start, I’m only going to be able to afford one county. I’m new to real estate. I’ve been in it for six months. I’ve only had two transactions will one transaction, but it was a dual agent. So, I’m a little short on marketing funds, but I’m just curious is 17 enough, should I go with the larger county number?
Kind of not sure where to start. It’s a common question and I’ll first ask, do you like listing homes in that adjacent county or would you rather stay in your county? I’d rather stay in mine.
Nobody wants a business that they hate. Right. You don’t want another listing appointment over there. Yeah. So considering two things, one that you would rather stay in your home county two that budget is a concern. I would say you’re better off to start in the county with 17. You’re likely to find less probably no competition.
What we find in those markets like that in secondary tertiary markets that small, typically nobody’s doing it. they’re pretty easy to dominate. So what I would recommend is to start in the smaller county, really focused on the attorney relationship part of this. What state are you in? California. Okay. it’s the most complicated process in the country.
So most people should have attorney representation and we have folks in those small markets in California that, they’ve built their entire business off of this strategy. Like Bill Byrd, he’s in Marin County, Marin averages about 30 leads a month and he makes a million dollars a year for about seven years running.
From 30 leads, so you can clear a million bucks. To become, an affiliate member of the fiduciary groups because you’re in California. I know those exist, become an affiliate member of the bar association, get to know like provide value to probate attorneys in your market.
as we talked about in the course, you want to open those relationships, not by asking, but by giving. So it brings them a referral. Take somebody from your network. Then, you just worked where you first represented the buyer or the seller on your closing. Seller.
Do you know if they have a living trust?
They do, it was in the, it was in a trust when it sold and the buyer was an investor. So yeah. purpose Of your relationship with them. Yeah, I do. But they’re out of the area. They’re in the bay area and I’m in placer county. So you could ask that investor if they have a living trust, but they don’t, they really should.
If they’re a sophisticated buyer, you might also suggest that they set up a domestic asset protection trust. If their a net worth of say more than 2 million bucks, it’s probably worth it. But that’s a way to generate a referral that you can then take to one of these attorneys and say, Hey, this is a buyer that I recently represented.
With the buyer, you can broach that as you know, I, listen, I just took this great course. That’s teaching me to think at a higher level. I was thinking about you, like, if you don’t have a living trust and if you don’t have asset protection and place. I have an opportunity to sit down with my legal team for free.
They’ll get the yes from him and then go to the attorney and turn him into a plus referral that’s ready to speak. Other than that, look at it. Look through your sphere of influence any wealthy people that you know that don’t have a living trust. You are in one of those markets where a rare thing, a living trust is very common in California because everybody knows 17 or 28 attorneys.
The number of probate leads is so low. Yeah, absolutely. You can have, you think about it, I’m going to get like we have San Francisco county has a hundred leads a month. I mean, you know, How many people are in the bay area. Right? So it’s because most people are a higher net worth and they have been approached by attorneys and they see the value in the plan.
Okay. But as you impress these attorneys, the one thing to realize is there are only 17 probates, which means the vast majority of the decedents in your market are probably dying with a trust in place. all of the stress points, all of the emotional factors, the service that the offer that you crafted while you took the course, that’s just as valid for a trust administration as it is.
It’s just way more efficient. Like they get to settle the estate in weeks sometimes versus 18 months. So I’m going to build more with my legal referrals than necessarily probate what you’re saying, probably as much saying that your referral network among CPAs, registered investment advisors, probate attorneys, people who work with the affluent families, the fiduciary, the bar association, you’ll probably end up with as much business from your referral partners as you will, from your, 17 lead marketing campaign.
Okay. All right. Thank you. What’s the median price. Your median is what? Probably eight. Yeah. It’s more six to seven. It’s not quite eight in the state. It is in the state. It’s eight, but in our areas, six, six and a half seven. If you pull one a month, one a month off of your 17, you’re not going to be hurting.
You have a pretty positive ROI. That’s true. Okay. Cool. Thanks for being here, Kris. Welcome.
What else can we help today? Fed good to see you in the new year, brother. Good to see you. How was your new year’s dinner that you made last minute? It was pretty good. So I’d never smoked, a duck and I took a chance, and then it like Christine’s whole family. So luckily it turned out. Oh, that works. Happy new year might be happy to be back. Had a couple of challenges, but everything is good.
What to say instead of “Are you thinking about selling?” (Probate Sales Language & Techniques)
I don’t know if you may have come on late. I was challenged everybody to do the Napoleon hill self-assessment from thinking and grow rich. And I’ve everybody on here. I’m betting you have a 2022 plan.
Do you want to talk about it? I think this time around, I don’t have. Which is bad. You on the spot, you fell on your face in front of everybody, but here’s the thing, here’s the thing. I will always admit it. And I won’t fluff.
You’re the best accountability that’s for sure. So I’ve taken numerous steps. Setting up 2022 But as far as having it written down, I don’t have it written down and I know that’s a challenge. So I’ve partnered with an associate of mine and we’ve taken steps to make sure that we have a consistent flow.
And as far as business, as well as I, signed up with Vulcan 7, to hit the ground running in the new year. I do need to put it in into, on paper. Absolutely. And I’m just I’ve been thinking a lot over the holidays about things that I think I focus too much time on that were not money-making activities and that just used too much of my time.
And I’m teaching myself to accept Delegating and just not being so OCD about things. books that you suggested one of them that I’m reading right now, which I thank you for is starting with no. By Jim camp which was also mentioned in Chris Voss’s book, is phenomenal when you read both books simultaneously. So what I did as well with Chris Voss was never split the difference.
I saw they have an Italian version as well since I have a lot of Italian clients because I wanted to see how to communicate the same in Italian. After all, you can understand the concept, but it’s just using your hands. Yeah. That too, I’ll always use the hands for sure. Me scuzi!. But no, but from there I found it interesting because I noticed that once I learned the verbiage in Italian as well, I found that with clients, it was a lot easier to communicate and to get the responses I wanted that I noticed that I caught myself numerous times now reading the Jim camp book that I was asking too many verb-led questions opposed to. I think they’re called interrogative, meaning I should be asking more who, how, which when. I caught that even in a message today to someone that I was writing to, I actually ran into someone and I was going to say, for example, Are you only interested in units with a view and then I changed it to how important is the unit, how important is it for the unit to have a view?
How important is it for the building to be full? And I noticed that opens up their mind to give you all the ammunition that you then need. And I never caught that. So I wanted to thank you for those suggestions. One of the most discouraging things.
How to sell an unstaged home: Creating an imagined experience (Sales Language & Techniques)
When I sold in Maui, we had $1,200 square foot, real estate on Kaanapali beachfront.
And we’ve walked into a $3 million unit without furniture and the criticism would just roll immediately. So I learned when I, as soon as I opened the door to I’d say oh, where would you put the sofa? Where would you guys have the TV? And it completely changed the showings on empty units And I would do things like that. Like I want them to imagine themselves there and unless I ask them to some people just wouldn’t because they were so focused on the real property, on the construction you know, they were there to buy a lifestyle, but they got focused on the tangible aspect of it.
And it was a way for me to just refocus them on the lifestyle decision. Considering, so I would ask things like that, like, oh my gosh, would you guys keep the Wolf range or would you try to get a different one or things like that? Like, do you think there’ll be a telescope out here on the one night or just a pair of binoculars?
During whale season and you start to, they start to paint their picture of, oh my gosh, this is my TV would go great right there.
How to manage your real estate business when you’re a perfectionist (Business Planning & Forecasting)
A new book that I want to recommend that haven’t been added to the reading list guys, cause I just started that as I drove up here to Canada last week.
One that I recommended last year was from Dr. Benjamin Hardy and Dan Sullivan from the strategic coach. And it was called who not. Instead, I think you’ve read that one. We talked about it talking about And Fed, they also, they just published a second book. That is one of the main tenants of what Dan Sullivan has used in the strategic coach, his entire career, but it’s called the gap in the gain.
And it’s pretty easy to summarize. It’s I’ll preface it. it’s one of those books that probably should have been a blog post or a podcast, but instead, it’s a book. The premise here is you can measure two things. You can measure the gap or where you can measure the gain.
And if you’ve ever heard Tony Robbins talk about gap analysis, it’s where you are today, where you want to be tomorrow is the. But most people don’t talk about the game. It’s where you are today, relative to where you came from. And I am as guilty of this as anyone, every time I’d take another step on the ladder of success.
it’s not that I’m not grateful for where I’m at. It’s I forget how damn hard I had to work to get there. Right? Like you forget those harder-fought accomplishments and those wins, and you must be always measuring backward. Like where you came from. So it’s easy to get down on yourself because you said I’m going to put 3 million in revenue in the business this year and you put 2 million.
What the hell? Like what think back to five years ago, 2 million bucks was a crazy amount of money. Right? I like the concept the book is teaching so far. I haven’t finished it yet. I usually don’t recommend books until. But just in the introduction in the first chapter, it could be a valuable book to this community, especially this time of year, as you’re looking back over the previous year and looking forward to the next, dream big, and set stretch goals for your gap.
But don’t forget the measure of the gain give yourself the credit for what you have accomplished. That’s another book recommendation. That’s not in the reading list yet, but you might have no gonna add it.
Sales language tips: Don’t use the word “Why” (Sales Language & Techniques)
So Frank is reading the gap and again, so that’s excellent. Joanne, you read it too. Have you finished it?
Yes. And he also bought up, do not use the word. Why? Because many times when you think about it, your parents would always ask, why did you do this? Why did you do that? I thought the book was excellent. I went through and I highlighted it and I’m going to read it again. Yeah, I was at a peak, like under, like I wanted to understand everything and when my mom would say why, but I’m like, that is not an acceptable answer.
We would go. Why whenever you asked why did you do. It’s not a very good word to use because people will think that. Okay, maybe that person is chastising. Why are you asking? Why so why is it not a very good word? Yep. That’s good. I look forward to it, I’ll finish it tomorrow on my drive.
I had two questions, so, I was telling an associate of mine who lives in Chicago about you and it just, it sounded like at the time probate was not part of his It just wasn’t part of his outline work-wise, okay. And it looks like he’s finally ready to jump into it and, he’s a genuine person and I could see them doing well in the probate space. So I guess a super quick question about that is. Are we allowed to bring people to this call as a guest to get an understanding given that I know there are probate alumni?
So I just, I don’t, I wouldn’t want to bring someone in and then it’s not. So we only share this link with actual CPEs. People who have taken the course. However, as we, over a couple of days we do some production and we’ll release them onto a podcast. So what I would say at first, it’s just having put news, grabbing an iTunes and apple podcasts, or, overcast or whatever uses it can have all of these calls in his pocket.
Fair. Okay. That’s it.
Why prospects ghost and how to close the deal (Offering Options)
And then going back to I have a challenging client situation right now, and I’m not sure what approach to take. So. He is this person I’ve known for about 10 years, but I also haven’t seen him in probably nine. Right. We’ve always stayed in touch. And then about a month and a half ago, he reached out to me sending me a video of a house that’s being remodeled.
So I said, Hey, it looks great. And he said, bring me a buyer. And I said I want it. I want to see it first just to see who to direct it to, to make sure that I’m not wasting my time, your time, or anyone else’s time. So he has me go there. I tore the house. It’s under construction. There are about six to seven weeks left before completion.
And I’m asking them, do you how many open houses do you want to do? Just when can I bring clients, what time, just to make sure that I’m planting the seed, right? And by the end of that conversation, I said how soon do you want to be on the market?
And he said, Will you tell me, ‘cause you’re listing this. I said, all right, great. So that was all nice and nice information. But ever since I sent him a listing agreement, he never opened the DocuSign. Right. I’ve been in touch with his left and right. And. At one point, I even said, Hey, it sounds like you’ve given up on wanting to sell the property.
And he says no, we’re going to do it with you. I finally get him on the phone. Cause he had been ignoring all my calls and he says, no, I’m going to do this with you. And only with you and we got to do this and I’m excited, blah, blah, blah. Then he disappears again. So I kept reaching out to him by text.
What’s the update. How soon do we want to get the photographer in blah, blah, blah? Just to keep them engaged, ignores. Then he finally reaches out to me and says, Hey, sorry, I’ve been away. Let’s touch base tomorrow. I follow up with him tomorrow. He doesn’t answer. And now he’s just been ignoring the question all the time.
So he sends me a happy new year. I respond. Then yesterday. I said, Hey, how are you how’s is everything going? Happy New Year. What’s the latest update with the property? How soon do we want to get the photographer and stagers in? Right. And he just keeps ignoring. So I’m not sure if It’s wise to have a limit to everything because also, I guess people don’t base on the way they act, they show us the type of client they will be, some not trying to be negative. I’m also not trying to be naive at the same time and just giving someone too long of a chance to prove themselves. I would first say, be patient and remember that whatever story you have in your head about why he’s not getting back to you is just that it’s your story until you hear his side of it.
We are in a pandemic, you’re dealing with a high net worth individual at the end of the year, who knows what he was going through. He thinks you look up to him, you guys haven’t talked in almost a decade and maybe he had his handed to him this year. And he doesn’t want to admit that to you. That’s why he hasn’t given you an explanation. You and I probably, wouldn’t approach it that way. We would be a little more transparent, but people with bigger egos that don’t hold themselves accountable, or don’t like to be held accountable, or don’t appreciate transparency, oftentimes.
Everything is going in on their own, on their life. You don’t know about it because they only want to present their ego wants to present that best self, right? Like that ideal image, self, and everything that happened in the background. Good or bad isn’t shown to the world. So think about that. Like what could he be going through?
You’ve done everything correctly so far. One thing I would recommend is there, do you have blueprints for the house? That’s what I had asked them for when I first went to the house, because while I was in construction, he wanted a price and I said, I have to come to see the house too, to make sure it’s fair market value.
It, we had a conversation, I was honest with him. He wanted 2.7 million for it. And when I went to him, I said, he told me that the, he said, look, I redid the garage and now it’s an ADU. And I said, is it permitted? So he says, no, it’s not. I said, all right. So how many square feet is that give or take us 600?
So I said, all right if the house is 2200 and the ADU is 600, I said, What happens if I just, hypothetically what happens if we get a buyer and this buyer tells us, look, I’ll give you the thousand afoot for the 2200 square feet, but I’m not going to pay you a thousand afoot for the unpermitted ADU.
I said, what happens? Then? He says we can just negotiate. I said, all right, I’m just asking, not saying that’s going to happen, but if it does I said, we could go about it two ways. We could either market it and disclose this, or, given that you’re about seven weeks out, we could apply for the permit for the ADU which will take about 60 to 90 days.
And in the escrow will say that the permit is pending and we can just close escrow once that’s approved that way you can also legally advertise it as a 2,800 square foot. So he was all open to that. And that day I said, look, in addition to that, It sounds like you want to get rid of this as soon as possible.
You want to, get the highest possible value and make sure that, in case the market corrects, you obtain, the values that this hot seller’s market is going to give you. What we could do is I said, do you have any blueprints for this or floor plans? Because what we could do is I could get a photographer and we could write.
A drone and B. Photography. We could virtually stage it to give people an idea of what it’s going to look like based on the spaces. And then from there, I can do a job. I can call brokers that I know have them come in and give us a broker price opinion so that we can price. The best way possible to get you the highest price that the market’s willing to pay.
And he says, that sounds great. Oh my God, I love this. I said, look, we may even be able to sell this before going live. How does that sound? He says that’s exactly what I want to do. And then he just disappeared. This is now been going on since November. So just strange. I’m just trying to, I don’t know if maybe, at one point he messaged me, he says, Hey, realistically, how much do you think this is going to sell for?
And I took a close look at comps and I said, look, the latest comp, which is right across the street from your fully remodeled house sold for 2.3. So I think we’ll probably be within that price point, even though there’s low inventory, we could probably get some more money. I didn’t want to give them a price and get them stuck on it.
But I noticed ever since we went over that he started going MIA. Even though when we had the conversation at the house, I said, hypothetically, what if someone comes to you today? House is 2200 square feet. They want to ignore the ADU and they offer you 2.2 and they write you the offer two-day cash.
Would you take it? Yes or no? And he says, yeah, why not? So then, initially we keep, gives me a yes. On a 2.2, but then when we go over comps and I say that comp sold for 2.3, and it’s not going to be in the, I never said it’s not going to be 2.7, but I said, it’s going to be around the 2.3 ish plus maybe a little more given that there’s low inventory.
He just went Mia after that. Well, The listing agreement that you’ve already sent that was priced at 2.7? No. So what I told them, when we set, when we did the listing agreement, I sent him one originally at a tentative 2395… With the agreement that we would then have the private broker price opinion, come through the house, give us their suggestion.
And then if we didn’t receive anything, we would agree to sit down and reposition the property to meet the market’s ex expectations. Okay, I’ll give you something that I used to do when I would work with higher-end property sellers that had unrealistic price expectations. Oftentimes if you confront them, there’ll be defensive or they’ll just shut down and disappear.
So then it’s like that, blah, blah, blah. I don’t want to hear it right. Something that I, a compromise that I found that worked well for me, it’s like, okay. So fed I hope I can sell this for two seven. How I hope I could sell it for more uh, you never know in this market, however, based on my professional opinion of value in the market comps, especially the one across.
I would say that to not sit on the market for more than 60 days and become a stagnant listing that buyers will be wary of, we need to list at your number and then agree to come down every week or on a biweekly basis until we find the market. And what I would do is in the additional terms of the listing agreement, I would put the dates in there.
So the listing would be on January 8th. The first price adjustment is on January 18th. The next one is January 28th. The next one is February 8th. And until we price it down to the 2.3 Yeah. It’s, I’ve been able to get higher-end owners to compromise with me. And That’s the only way I’ll take an overpriced listing.
If I feel like it’s overpriced, that’s the compromise I put in place. So a lot of agents, especially on the age, at least in the market, and I think you probably all know the agent that will take any listing at any price. And then just ride them, like held for, with price reduction. And I don’t do that.
I try to be upfront with them in the beginning. So I’ve all in the additional terms, actually written out the price reduction schedule, and then I’ll do one blanket price reduction. I guess I’ll do it on a price reduction addendum, and just have the schedule. So I’m not chasing paper every week on that deal.
It automatically adjusts downward until we find the market. So that’s something you may suggest is, prepare a listing agreement. That takes him, that puts him up at two seven, but within 30 days it gets him down to two, five. You don’t have to offer a ratified contract, then get it down to two shirts or two to I would also try to deliver it to him in person so he can, so you make sure, like find out, like offer to come to him and buy him a beer or buy him lunch, and see.
If you can present it in person, like present the idea and then just have the DocuSign ready and just hand them your phone. Like, just touch the yellow boxes. You read my mind because before you gave me the suggestion, I was thinking of my next message to him was going to be, Hey, when can we meet at the property so that you can show me, what’s going on?
I think that adding what you just said to that I think would be good. Yeah. I liked that. Yeah. Cause I think that way they feel like it’s a fair trade-off I’ll do it. I’ll do it with the agreement that, ABC. I like that. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you.
Thank you. I’m getting my head against the wall about this thing. Again, it sounds like you’ve got a good listing coming up.
Bill gross. What did we say about bringing babies to a business call? Nobody can focus with you there cuddling. He’s not an alumnus of the program either, so I’m cheating on the phone, all this to save a couple of hundred bucks…
This is why I worked so hard. Well, It’s good to see you, sir.
“Hello, are you a widow?” How to handle call reluctance for widows in probate (Calling probates)
Winston, you’ve been patiently waiting with your hand up.
How can I help you? No worries, Chad, I appreciate the opportunity. My question is very similar to Chris, the first question, but I’m on the opposite. End of that. I’m in Southern California, very heavily populated.
I also just signed up with all the leads. I’m getting ready to drop a little slower to get going, but getting ready to drop with members and December and after scrubbing the list down, I’d say that’s going to be somewhere close to about 180 mailers going out for November and December. Getting ready to roll out January here pretty quick, they’re finishing up my website, what you would do next. Do you have any call reluctance
and I don’t the ones where I see? What are the PR is of the same residence? I have a little resistance to going and that’s I think a little too close, maybe after some more time has gone, by the way. Let’s work on that. Let’s work on that one first. Do you remember the story that I told at the very beginning of mastery about Pam? So her mother was a widow or her father’s estate was being probated. Her mother had a massive stroke when in long-term care and they were discharging her and they had no cash. They had all tons of equity in the house that deal changed my perspective on approaching widows. Because had I not been reaching out to her, I don’t know what they would’ve done.
They would’ve probably sold the house for 80 grand and I, and I sold it for more than double that and only four days. So that, and other deals since then have really, I’m thinking of all the faces and names. I will say that the windows that I’ve helped are probably the people who needed my help.
The most, it did take a different level of tech. You need to have a softer touch and not be so eager. If you call yourself a real estate agent, like just set them, set a rat trap on your desk. And if you say, Hey, I’m Winston, I’m a real estate snap. Like, close it on your hand because they don’t want to hear that.
You need to take empathy to the next level with that group of people, but do not shy away from that part of your list because it’s quite honestly the people who need your help the most. So think about your approach and how you handle those differently. Make them in another realm of calls David Pannell, I don’t think Dave’s here today. He goes through and calls. Out-of-town sellers first. So his call priority is out of town sellers, then everybody else then what or widows or widowers. you mentioned waiting, giving it some time. So that’s the last part of his list and his prospects. Now, the other thing I’ll tell you, like from gathering probate data for nearly a decade, when I was part of all the leads We’ve found consistently year after year. It was a medium. If you look at all probate leads that we pulled from all counties, it was a median of 68 days from the date of death until the date of probate filing.
So most families will wait at least two months before they approach the court and petition for probate. If you look at the ones with the same, the decedent’s address and the PR address are the same, typically that’s the higher median number. It’s like four to six months. So probate, like there’s a reason we don’t talk about pre-probate money.
It’s not something that I think 99% of people shouldn’t do it. Because there is the risk of reputational harm. Probate is a signal flare to the world. There you think about the emotions that they had to go through. So they went through denial, they went through anger, acceptance. They went to the courthouse, they petitioned for probate, and now they’re in a mindset of, okay.
I’m going to have creditors calling me. I know for four months, I have opened myself up as the portal to the public, to this estate. So a lot of psychology has come into play to petition the court for probate. They’re more ready than you would expect. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have petitioned for probate.
Make sure you’re hearing their stories, not making a story up for them and costing yourself, the opportunity. If you dare to call widows, have a soft touch and you’re empathetic and find ways to help them. I guarantee you, there will be a day, not too far from now where you’re like if I wouldn’t have called her, what would she be? So don’t shy away from those. The reason I ask in the beginning, if you had call reluctance, that’s usually when people are just getting their first leads they’ll find many other urgent things to do, but they won’t make their phone calls.
So if you don’t have call reluctance great. If you do. Be honest with yourself about it and work on that first. So jump into estate professionals mastermind or probate mastery alumni, and put together a little role-play group, and just get three or four guys or people to role-play with you until you’re comfortable with that phone call.
But I would say, you got your marketing down. The next step is making sure you don’t have call reluctance. And if you do ideally, I get to a point where you’re proud to present the offer.
Can your own trust advisor give you referrals? (B2B relationships)
Next, Kris your backup, whenever you’re ready. You can in. I just had a question about the conflict of interest with the attorney. That’s handing our trust. Can you still build a business-to-business relationship or?
Yeah, I don’t see a conflict, even if they’re the trustee. I don’t see a conflict. Okay. Thanks. Yeah. Good for you for having a living trust.
All right. Who else? Anything we can help you with? Any success stories?
Year 4 of my 5-year probate business plan (Probate Business)
Bill, you came in a little bit late. We talked about 2022 and planning. You have your big plan for the year. Let’s feel good about it. I do. I think thank you. And obviously, I’m a little occupied today. My daughter came by with my grandson’s first grandchild, which is mine why.
I got in his business to be able to take time out to be with my grandchildren. That’s why I’ve worked so hard to build a business. And I would say that in planning, the thing that I focus on, the more different than some people, I would say two things. One is I have a five-year plan.
This is the beginning of year four of a five-year plan. I sat when I started with. About three years ago, with a clear end goal and a why attached to it. And then it’s broken down by year, but more probably break it down to quarter because I just think past quarter is just too hard too far.
If you’re off track, you’ll give up. If I’m ahead of the game, I won’t push it. So I do quarterly goals say more important to me. And the other thing I would say is I focus on. Two processes in my business. I got two things I have to do to be successful. And so those are the main things for me is I try to break it down to get to those processes.
And yeah, I’m excited. I’ve watched the year we started and we’re up and running. And I got an eviction going on on a case right now. I know it can sound harsh to your victim, somebody, but the people who own the house are on welfare and they’re not criminals or drug dealers.
Th the squatter is a drug dealer and drug user, and they’re illegal. And my client who’s on welfare is entitled to the money that the father passed to them. So it’s the first time I’ve gotten as involved as they have a this deep on an eviction. So that, that going on, but yet my plans of the place were up and running.
It’s the second workday of the year. I’m pretty excited about it. Thanks.
I think the last time I asked about your probate transaction volume was the third quarter. You said you thought you’d be ended up around 32 for the year. Did you meet or exceed your 2021? I fell too short. It was a great year. The income was was where it had to be. But I fell two units short at the end, the way our company works, you get a bonus if you hit certain things, but the order of those deals didn’t work out, but I’m so.
I had a fantastic year. And I have, some good pendings. I have some good leads right now for new listings. And I think most importantly, I have the system set up for my marketing already placed. So I’m not wondering what to do. I’m just doing it daily. Working more with attorneys on our fro basis and benders and investors.
I think there’s been my focus, a little different approach than the. The standard path that you’ve laid out, but I think I’m using the principles and but no, I think this year I’ll do about 35, but I also expect my team nationally. I have a guy who’s on my team in Georgia. Just opened up in December.
He’s at all the lead customers. So excited to get him on board as well. So some good stuff going on.
Exp world meeting with your team as you grow them. I’d love to, I think it’d be fantastic for some other folks. Like I, I went like they would set me up an avatar and I would go in and present the world to them. If you want to do that you’ve done a ton for me.
I’d be happy to contribute to what you’re doing.
The best probate marketing letters that worked for me (Direct Mail)
All right. So Frank doesn’t have a mic. So he says I’m in the middle of probate mastery. I’ve printed the letters, which do we use. I work mostly as a real estate broker. So whichever one feels the best for you. I probably spent 40 to $50,000 in my own money, finding out which letters didn’t work. Those are the ones that did work.
So each of those has been proven out to maintain about a 2% response rate. Like they cleared the bar of a letter that I thought was worth becoming a template for you. Now that said, every letter should be customized so it fits your offer and your business. But whichever one seems most like you and your culture, for example, there’s one called probate social enterprise.
That’s pretty specific to the way I see the world as an altruistic entrepreneur. Some people are gonna look at that and go, what kind of fluff is this crap? Others are more direct where you get right to the point. You let them know that they’re being targeted because you’re aware of it. So whichever one seems to fit your personality and your company culture best.
And that’s the one I would say to you, don’t get too lost and try to have the perfect sequence. The letters are more about when it shows up and what it specifically says when it shows up like your PS line is the most important part of any letter. And but in trying to have complicated sequences, especially if you’re not using a system that automates your list management it’s just damn near impossible.
If you’re using all the leads, and you can use the list management tool that we built, where you basically set up your mail in a sequence and then click, and as you opt people out,
as far as how many your follow-up question. So we know that 83% of sales happen between marketing touch seven and twelve. So does the more frequency you have, the more closings you’ll have. So, in a perfect world, I would like to see everybody market to every family until they have had made contact and, set up a sequence of 12 letters, and then just make sure you’re managing your opt-outs, the ones you spoke to that don’t need help, and send as many letters as you’re comfortable with, usually after month three or four, all of your competition has dropped off.
And what you’ll find is if you market term like, the ones that put their head in the sand early in the process are the ones that will very quickly, they’ll be your come list, my calls. They’re the ones that need help the most, but you’ve got to play catch up with them. And I don’t think John Fraker is here today, but he’s a probate attorney in California and he talks about the same thing.
It’s like the ones that went pro se, that sat on their hands for six months. Those are the people that need help the most when they call his law office. Sometimes making calls for a 12-month-old list can be very discouraging, but just remember the one or two out of a hundred that are still in there that haven’t settled the estate may need your help more than anyone.
When should you stop calling a lead who says ‘I’m not interested’? (Probate script ideas)
Heroic, Hey Chad, how’s it going? Going good. Thanks. My question is going along with what you were saying, you said that as you’re calling people and talking to them, or they’re calling you back from the letters you sent, and they specifically more like when I’m calling people, when they’re saying, off the bat, no, don’t need any help out of taking care of.
as I do more calls and get better with the interaction, I can probably stay on the phone longer with them and they can’t just blow me off like that. You said to keep track of who is saying they don’t need help. Who does like, even on a quick call when people say I don’t need help, should I just ask them off my list?
Not send them any mail. No. If you have a good, clear reason, so we don’t need help because of valid reasons, then that’s when I would opt them out. If they, if it’s a blow-off and they’re getting a call from me next month. Correct. And you can listen to the role play in the course.
There are lots of different ways you can handle that, but abruptness and differentiation will usually prevent a lot of those. You can say something like, Hey, this is Chad I’m calling because I met with the probate court this week. And she shared your information with me. And it’s like, what?
No one else has said that. And wherever you’re getting your leads, somebody went down and met with the probate clerk and was allowed into that room. So that’s an extension of your team. You’re not lying to them. It’s somebody from my team that was the probate clerk and asked me to call you.
And just anything that you can do to sound completely different than the others, but they say we don’t need help depending on your personality. I like the thing, like, I like to say things like that’s the famous words of nine out of 10 of my best clients. And then just be silent because it gets them out of their reticular activation system and their mind.
They’re like, oh, another one we’ve heard this before. There’s a song and dance. And if you can break them out of that Raz, then they’re thinking from their prefrontal cortex and they’re paying attention and that’s what we need to do. So using humor, using abrupt, like just anything very different that kind of gets them on their heels.
And like, what did he just say to me? Because then you’re talking to that person. So just try different things like that on for size, try humor, try things that this cross. And you’ll probably smooth that over where you can defeat the objection before it ever comes up. So I guess also what I’m taking away is that if I feel like they’re just on autopilot blowing me off, cause I’m the third, fourth person that’s called them in the last week.
Don’t take that. No. And uh, and scratch them off my list. Call them again next week. Still, send them a mailer. Now they tell me, obviously, and I might ask a question or two for the house is sold then. No reason, really, for me too, unless any of my needs, some other help and I could provide some resource maybe, but yeah, like you said, unless they have like a real definitive reason why they don’t need my help, that’s the case then go ahead and scratch them off my list.
How to monetize every real estate conversation (Advanced Sales Techniques)
Yes, but I don’t want to go back to something that you said that I don’t, I haven’t talked about a whole lot lately. My big thing is to monetize every conversation. So if you can get somebody on the phone that owns an asset or recently out of an asset, there’s a way to monetize that conversation. If you are a versatile real estate professional.
So for example, if you call somebody you’re too late, someone else listed the house, they already sold it. Yeah. The average inheritance in the United States is 77,000 bucks. What could you do with 77 grand? If they were willing if they didn’t need the money right now, and they were willing to lend it out when you borrow it, would one of your investors borrow it?
Like, can you sell them up? And it couldn’t be a down payment to sell them a duplex or triplex. So don’t ever be, don’t be afraid to become an advisor to them just because they listed and sold the house. This could be the start of the best buyer and the best private money lender relationship you’ve ever had.
So just keep in mind, monetize every conversation when you’re working with this niche, because we know certain things about them. If they haven’t sold the asset, we know that there’s about a 77% chance it’s free and clear And they have a lot of equity. If they have sold the asset, we know that they’ve got a chunk of cash in their pocket.
And by the way, was there any life insurance, because that’s tax-free income that they have an opportunity to invest or spend, which do they plan. And if you can get them going, I wouldn’t open with this, but once you get them going back, is there any insurance, and if so, do you guys have a plan to invest that?
Or are you just going to spend it like most people and let the legacy. That’s a pretty abrupt thing to say, but I get just like we were talking about earlier, like getting them to connect with that. And I’m like, oh crap, we spend it. That is killing dad’s legacy. And it’s like, it’s an, are you familiar with the two marshmallow tests that psychologists use with kids?
So you can give like I’m going to fudge the numbers, but if you take a kid and the formative years, like between the age of three and. Do you offer them one marshmallow now or two marshmallows in an hour? The ones that choose two marshmallows? Typically they will tend to be middle-class or higher on the socioeconomic scale.
The ones who choose one, marshmallow, the instant gratification kids. They tend to be the least wealthy of the adult population. This has been going on for years. So it’s something you can reference. You can use it. Things like that, that say, just tell that, that two mushroom or the two marshmallow test, when you’re trying to convince people who aren’t investors to become investors you can use non-threatening examples like that to make them think.
I wonder like, and you just give them something to think about. So don’t immediately write them off or opt them out because chances are between the insurance and the equity and the personal real property. They’ve got some cash. So should they set up a living trust and you turn them into a referral?
Should they become a private lender and set up a living trust and meet with your registered investment? Or. And your CPA, there are still all those vendors. Our whole vendor team can benefit from a well-capitalized buyer. That’s in a better mental state than they were months ago before they sold the house.
So don’t forget, you’ve got like, you’ve got an, a plus referral on the phone and we might just have your next buyer or your next lender.
Thank you so much. You’re welcome!.
Is Probate Plus worth it in 2022? (Probate Data)
Joyce! I’m doing well. Good to see ya. I’m hoping that you can tell me if I should use probate plus every month. So if it were the product I designed two years ago, I would say yes, but I don’t know what the product is now. So I’m not sure what they’re using for the match and append algorithm now.
So I don’t know my best answer. Sorry. It’s typically. So what I found was that all my testing with the original version of probate, plus I was able to cut marketing costs by 45%, which lowered the overall campaign costs by about 15%. And it was for anyone who’s not familiar with that. It was a product that was a match and append data augmentation that scrubbed out the ones that.
Already on MLS didn’t own real estate had already been dealt with. So we were able to target our marketing dollars on, if you say, give me a list of a hundred, I can target the top 80 based on available data. Like, Show me the real ones with real estate. Show me the ones that have real estate that is not currently listed.
So I would just make sure you understand how their match and append process is working Joyce because I have, they’re now calling it property plus, so I’m assuming something has changed. And Tim and I haven’t discussed that. I don’t know. So just make sure you have a good understanding of what’s being done with the data.
Thank you. Thank you.
Alright, anybody else? Anything you want to add?
All right guys. We’ll wrap up this call. Thank you guys so much for being part of our community or entering. We’re not quite a year old with this brand. We’re coming up on that and thank you guys for following us in the 22. Look forward to having a great year with you.
Thanks so much. Have a great day. Thanks, Chad!
About the Author
Katt is an expert in probate marketing and helps entrepreneurs build businesses in the probate space. She is the co-founder of the Estate Professionals Mastermind podcast, which has become the most widely-shared probate real estate podcast. She also writes training content for ProbateMastery.com and a weekly LinkedIn newsletter followed by over 9000 professionals. You can reach her on Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn.