Weekly Live Real Estate Coaching for the Estate Professionals Mastermind Podcast:
In this episode: How to set up your real estate CRM and get consistent in your lead generation and probate prospecting; probate marketing ideas and best practices for drip campaign sequences; cold call contact rates, best days to call, and handling call backs from leads; Probate Mastery students share probate leads from All The Leads reviews, ForeclosuresDaily reviews, and discuss real estate CRMs like LionDesk vs. Sierra Interactive.
Episode #33 of Estate Professionals Mastermind Podcast
Join the Estate Professionals Mastermind group for weekly group challenges, high-energy community support, and bite-sized real estate content.
David Pannell of Pivot Agent hosts this week’s live training with Certified Probate Experts. David challenges the group of Certified Probate Experts to catch up on their follow-up calls, and – if they aren’t automating and assigning follow-up tasks – to get their real estate CRM set up to start doing so!
Training Topics In This Episode (YouTube Links):
0:00 Cold calling probate real estate leads on the DNC list
2:28 Best time to cold call real estate leads: Weekend contact rates
3:24 Cold calling expireds: David turns an objection into two acquisitions
5:02 How to answer when a lead calls you back and you work multiple lead lists: “Why are you calling me?”
6:26 Treating real estate prospecting like a supply chain: Why your real estate database is more important than a listing appointment today
10:58 How to make a wholesale cash offer over the phone when cold calling probate leads
13:11 Making cash offers in the current real estate market: Net sheet, ARV, and comps, and wholesaling buy and holds
15:02 Pivot Agent: Pivoting from a real estate agent to an agent who invests and wholesales
20:21 How to go on a cash appointment at a probate property for wholesaling real estate
21:56 Should you double-close on a wholesale deal when probate investing?
22:24 David introduces his Pivot Agent real estate course and probate book marketing piece
23:52 Probate marketing ideas: Setting up probate letters, CRM email drips, video texts, handwritten cards, and personalized gift cards
30:41 Setting up your probate marketing system for automation and scaling
34:04 Probate leads, tax sales, and pre-foreclosure leads ROI: Lead sources, data quality, and list providers
37:33 Building rapport and standing out from other investors when you make cash offers/wholesale offers
41:40 Short sale for probate property with a reverse mortgage with notice of default
48:49 Improving your marketing strategy and increasing your ROI
58:01 More about David Pannell’s Pivot Agent real estate prospecting course
- Join Estate Professionals Mastermind Group (Facebook)
- Take Chad’s Probate Course and get Certified
- Take David Pannell’s Pivot Agent real estate prospecting course
- Learn Probate, Real Estate Investing, Creative Finance, and more on our YouTube Channel
- Recent Content:
- Group Probate Coaching 32: How to become THE go-to Probate Expert | Probate marketing with real estate title attorneys – Probate Mastery
- Highlight Miniseries: How to offer real estate services without upfront costs: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBkb3x1p-B4IuFNxbly3YoOymAzH7p-m4
- How to Find Probate Leads Online – PLUS Probate lead company reviews for Real Estate Professionals – Probate Mastery
PROBATE TRAINING SESSION TRANSCRIPTS: (Download PDF of Full Transcript)
Cold calling probate leads on the DNC list: The Great Debate
Evie, are you making your cold calls yet? Oh, why do you doubt it? Laughs I wish I could make calls to my list of personal representatives, like 75% of the phone numbers on my leads just aren’t good, or they’re DNC oh my goodness. Yeah, you got to call them anyway. You don’t call the DNC. I do. I do. I’m not a fan of seeing a $43,000 fine hit me. You’ve seen that happen or I have not experienced it.
I’m just, I’m doing risk avoidance. Prospecting avoidance. I disagree. I mean, I just, it’s risky. It’s a big bill to pay. I made my first round of phone calls on Friday. And you’re telling me this, No, no, No. Do what you guys do, but do what you guys do, but they’re going after the bigger companies that do the auto-dialing and you can get threatened, but you just got to like Kevin Ward says, just apologize and say, look, I didn’t see your name on there. I won’t call you again. No big deal. That’s what I do. usually, the ones on the DNC list are the nicest to talk to.
Cause they never get calls
So I have a question. That’s a good way of thinking about it. First of all, before I ask you a question, Chad wanted me to let y’all know that I’m the host of this week. And I’ve been promoted to probate mastery coach Dave Pannell, and I’m here to answer any questions and y’all gave me some topics to talk about,
so I haven’t felt comfortable enough to do role-playing with anyone other than my husband. And he’s been tough on me. He asked me your question last night, when I did my introduction, he said he didn’t have any needs that needed to be met, but the thought was a ghost in the house. How can I help with that? Of course, I wanted to say call Ghostbusters, but I mean, have you ever had anybody say anything like that? That’s great, that’s a great response because you do want to turn things funny, not funny, but you want to make it lighter and say, Hey, that’s a good opportunity for me to come over and meet y’all.
I’d love to meet your ghosts. Okay. That’s what I would do. I have an investor right now that has a house that he’s flipping and all through the process. They’ve heard things and doors closing and weird noises in the back of the house. And now every realtor that shows the house, they’re seeing the same thing.
He took it off the market just to get it blessed. So you can call your local church and they usually have the people that do an exorcism. Yeah. We had one house that we bought that was 120 years old and we had it blessed just in case.
Best time to cold call real estate leads: Weekend contact rates
I have another question.
I never hear anybody indicate that we should make calls on Saturday or Sunday. And, I find that I’m not getting good pickups eight to 10. Four to six. What’s wrong with calling on a Saturday? I’m in West LA we are not a real religious area. It’s LA LA land. Maybe on a Sunday, but why not Saturdays?
I think it’d be a great time. I’d speak to somebody on a Saturday, rather than calling me, bothering me at the office. I don’t appreciate those phone calls. It’s like working out until you get to the gym. You don’t feel good about it. And same with prospecting. It doesn’t matter when you do it.
Lead follow-up or phone calls. I like to call on Saturdays from 10 to 10 to one, but it seldom happens. if I don’t have something planned with my wife or a kid going somewhere new, it’s but Saturdays, it doesn’t matter when you make the calls. You’re going to reach people when you don’t expect it.
And you’re going to have great conversations with people that you never expected to have a conversation with.
Cold calling expireds: David turns an objection into two acquisitions
I was calling expired listings, almost 11 days ago, looking for houses that didn’t sell. And since I have the experience, the probate, I came across one that looked like it had estate as a seller and then expired as-is property.
So I got her on the phone and I’m the only one knowledgeable that talked about certain topics that kept her on the phone. she had several people call her that day and now she’s selling two houses to me, one the as-is house and the one she’s living in that she did not want to sell in the beginning.
She wanted to pay the one off, but she’s not getting as much money as she thought with one house. So you just never know the conversations you’re gonna. Is one of your students, David? I got to say, I need to hear that call, man. I was just gonna say it’s in there. Yeah, I think it’s, I try to put all my calls because everything I do is recorded, let me see if I put it in there real quick. Not to delay y’all and Dave, are you coaching to investors or are you coaching to agents? I mainly I’m coaching on the part that we should talk about today on the follow-up and the conversion, the phone calls.
Making calls. You’re only going to get a hold of 10% of people. That’s known through prospecting. So even if you say you have bad phone numbers, you have to dial through those numbers to get that 10%. And then you’re going to have those conversations that you’re just amazed that they pick up the phone.
It works out. you probably get one house under contract every week if you made five days’ worth of phone calls and didn’t do the avoidance And to the what Selena was just talking about. Do you think Saturdays are still a good time to do anytime’s a good time when you get on the phone, because you’re going to leave voicemails for people, and then you’re going to follow up on those calls.
So many days are good.
How to answer when a lead calls you back and you work multiple lead lists: “Why are you calling me?”
I got a question there. Okay. I left a few voicemails. And then they called me back. I didn’t hear their name, who I was talking to. Cause I have other businesses. This was, that was just a disaster. I managed to get through the conversation and at the end I said just, excuse me.
Tell me your name again. I made a few calls the other day when I had a few minutes. But how do you deal with not knowing who’s calling you back? I looked at the phone a few minutes before I had the nerve to pick it up. That’s where you’re going to have to assume that the conversation and try to be buddies and friendship, you’re going to have to pick up the conversation is where they think it left off.
Why’d you call me? Okay. What are you, what are you selling? Why’d you call me? Yeah, I probably called you. Cause your house was on the market or I was looking in your neighborhood for a house to sell. I came across your phone number. Do you have a home that you’re considering selling and just shut up?
Sometimes we talk too much when we should not be talking amen to that.
Yeah. I think with the tracking your calls too, it depends on if you’re just doing probate. Like I’m mostly just doing probate. Usually find their info before I call them back. So having different phone numbers for different marketing lists is important. Nothing. Yeah. But if they’re selling a house too, it’s an easy conversation to continue.
If they’re calling back to tell you not to call, they’re going to say it right off the bat and say not to call, so I wouldn’t worry about it. I wouldn’t even worry about looking them up. It’s like calling through expireds or probate and looking up the house while you’re calling. There’s no reason to until there’s a conversation that you need to look up the comps.
Treating real estate prospecting like a supply chain: Why your real estate database is more important than a listing appointment today
Are you thinking about selling a house, now, or in six months to a year? Guys that’s the thing with the phone calls is our database is the most important thing we’re building. It’s not the appointments today.
It’s not the appointments. The appointments 90 days from now are what’s important. And that’s why if you’re buying these probate leads, you got to make sure have a system that’s going to automate to these people that allows that follow-up.
There’s a deal recently. I just did. And yeah, the lady said I was, I only call her one time a year and a half ago, but she says I’ve been getting your emails about the market updates. And then I, I got a drip a campaign and my CRM that she thinks I was emailing her for the last year and a half. And she called me and said, am I still interested in buying her house?
She almost begged me to buy it
I’m not on here to tell you guys I’m doing a hundred deals a year in probate. I’ve done 23 this year. I just put another 2 under contract. So 25 for probate this year. That’s pretty good. My goal is 50 every year, but with the pandemic and stuff, going on, our courts are backed up,
but I’m also looking in the expireds for sale by owners, for rent by owners.
I’m looking everywhere for distressed properties these days. So I know this is a probate mastery, but it’s going to lead you to other opportunities by the knowledge that you have to get through title issues through probate.
Banks are going to let the residential foreclosures loose next year, probably in February. I do the work for the bank of California, and I know they have 22 they’re sitting on, that they’ll probably release in January to him and just start the foreclosures it’s coming.
It’ll come next year. That’s good. Perfect. Be right in time. Same with probate. There are people tied up in probate court. Every deal I’ve done so far has been a year, held up in court. But the ones, the probate ones I love when, whenever I hear an opportunity in probate is there’s a family member that’s renting a house. That is in the property that they own. Or it’s held up in court and it gives me a year or two to follow up with them through Sierra. I call probate five days a week for at least two hours a day.
And I would love to have appointments every day, but I’m not going to get on here and tell you it’s that perfect. It’s not, but what is perfect is you’re going to get at least two to five good conversations that week, and those people are going to be added to your CRM and those numbers add up. You had five people, two to five people a day over a week. That’s going to be 20 to 25 new contacts in your CRM. Then over a 52 week or 47-week cycle vacation, you’re going to have another thousand people in your CRM that you physically talk to about selling a house. At some point, that’s going to turn in positive for you.
But if you’re delaying because of the DNC list or delaying because you don’t want to call on a Monday because you don’t feel good, you’re not going to ever build that database. And if you’ve never build a database, you’re never going to have a business. You’re never going to put product on a shelf. You ever go to a gas station and wonder how they keep those places stocked.
Or Walmart, my mind works differently. I go into Walmart, I see all the products on the shelf. I’m like, what is the process of getting that stuff here so that we have it to buy? It’s the same in our database, you got to create leads, not purchase leads. You got to create leads and calls and make conversations with people and relationships in the hardest probate ones are the most beneficial.
The wholesale fees are so outrageous. It’s, nuts. It’s like selling a million-dollar home. So since I was just making phone calls in the designated hours that were suggested. I have time during the day. Like I only have my first set of leads. I’ve already through them, found out if there’s real estate, I’ve done due diligence on what I have my walking 64.
Should I just be making phone calls during the day on the same people and maybe tracking when I call them, whether it’s the eight o’clock or the middle of the day, or do I wait for these magic times? Because I have Nope, that I know there’s an MIT study out there and it says when you should call or whatever, that’s why a good CRM is good because here let me show my screen.
I’m not perfect either. Guys. 29 overdue calls I have to make. And these are majority probate leads. This guy I’ve been calling for two years to sell me a church crazy, but I haven’t dropped him because he’s in my prime status and I call him, he retired now he’s he keeps telling me for the last two months that he’s going to get my information to the new pastor.
So every week I text him say, Hey, can they call me? Probate? Probate, probate. River District. That’s a probate, but that’s a door driving for dollars in the neighborhood. This is the estate. This is the lady that’s selling me two houses now. Cause I called expireds and this is another probate.
But he wasn’t on the probate list cause they’re heirs to a property that their um, stepdad is living in. They can’t get them out of the house.
So go ahead and James.
How to make a wholesale cash offer over the phone when cold calling probate leads
Yeah, I’ve got a question. Um, I’m calling out-of-state owners. I’ve got my VA calling in-state absentee owners. And what I’m finding is that I’m reaching people.
Like I called one guy. He said he’s going to sell the property by mid-November. I get as email. I asked him if I could send him an offer over which I kind of regretted doing. But I did the Herlihy boy approach. Like Bruce talks about, inching my way in would it be okay if I drove by and looked at the house from the street?
Yeah, sure. Okay. Is anybody living in the house, would it be okay if I looked in the back? If I, you know, walked around the house and looked at it. Yeah, sure. That type of deal. But I’m confused about where to go from that because this is not a long-term prospect.
This guy wants to sell his house in a week. But I didn’t collect enough information from him to give him a wholesale offer. I wasn’t able to get him back on the phone. Some of these guys are old school. They expect you to come to look at the house. So I’m kinda stuck between that classical wholesaling approach where I make an offer on the phone versus me going and looking at the property.
A lot of these guys are out of state, so they’ll let you go look at the property, but they’re going to sell it regardless. So I’m having trouble there, w where to go once I do find out they have property, I do get their email information.
What do you think? Yeah. If he’s not picking up, you’re going to keep calling him until you do reach him. Of course. And you just got to get to the point in the conversation. If they’re accepting offers or they look into hiring a listing agent, that’s why I told you it’s important for you to get licensed.
Got to have you got to have that option and they’re going to say yes or no. No, not ready to sell yet.
To the neighbor who was interested in buying it when I was on the initial call, and then I did email him, I corresponded through email a little bit. I told him I needed some more info. Would it be okay if I called him? And then he told me, oh yeah I’m not interested. So I’m like, okay I don’t know if he wants to sell to his neighbor or what, or, if I just wasn’t thorough enough, I wasn’t professional enough in my follow up or what it was, I don’t know we all get those calls. It gets exciting because they pick up the phone and you have a conversation about selling and then they avoid you.
But the neighbor is probably gonna be a little under what he wants because he’s so connected to the property. So it’ll stay in touch with them, find a way to call them every 21 days, and look up the house when you do and see if it’s transferred title. And you’re not going to win every battle. and When they do sell, he’s going to answer your call. Cause he’s going to want an offer to see if the offer he has is justified.
Making cash offers in the current real estate market: Net sheet, ARV, and comps, and wholesaling buy and holds
Absolutely. That thinks as far as with where the market’s at right now, like Bruce, was talking about how if he can get a house at 90% value and he can get like a seven cap, then he’ll generally buy that property. My question is, say, if the house is Zillow is 120, the values went up 30 grand in the past year. Rents are 1500 or 1300 a month over there.
Do I need to come in at, 80% market value? I just don’t know where to come in right now on my offer. I just felt like they’re gonna kinda, they’re gonna reject you if you come in at, anything under 90% kind of like Bruce was saying. But also that’s not good if you’re running a wholesale business because there’s not a lot of meat on that bone yeah.
Do that Excel sheet because once you have your ARV number in there and your repairs that you think for the house, for the average square foot, you’re going to know exactly what to make an offer for. And then you’re going to test the waters. It’s called anchoring.
It’s going to be a range. And you’re going to test the waters, be like, Hey, I’m somewhere between 180, 190, or whatever it is. $1 and $10. You want to anchor them. You want them to say a price as much as you can, but you don’t want them to say a price where it’s going to kick you out either.
I’d rather make my offers in person. Absolutely. I collect info on the property. I ask them what their timeline is. Yep. I’ll get the range. Usually, how I do that, I’ll look at cash sales in that area within half a mile. If I don’t see anything up to two miles.
If you guys see my screen and you could see the net sheet that tells me what to make an offer at. So I have remodeled costs what I would spend on a house. So that number would carry over to the cost of my money. This is going to be a little confusing for most, but the buyer HUD, all my costs at closing paying all their closing fees, except taxes.
And then what I think ARV is that number comes down based on repairs and what I purchased at closing costs to sell it. Then my net profits, 50,000 for a house. I want to make at least 35,000 on each house. 50 gives me a range to wholesale it making 15, $20,000 for a wholesale fee. That’s nice,
Pivot Agent: Pivoting from a real estate agent to an agent who invests and wholesales
I do something very similar. Of course, I just use my escrow company to get me the net sheet, but I run the ARV comps. I run the repair cost in my market. And I just did this with a probate seller who I’ve been working with since the January follow-up and what’s unique about him is that he likes to communicate through messenger.
He wants to communicate, so everything is somewhere written. I’ve only had one face-to-face, But, I sent him everything, and I, and then I was recommending, Hey, you could go ahead and get all the renovations done upfront.
And that’s with working with an investor who does them, and they get some money off the back end, but it gets you a higher net profit. And he didn’t like the idea. But I did give him a range. I gave him the as is I gave him the, what an investor would pay for it. And I gave him what he would get if he did the repairs.
And it’s interesting. He went with the as-is, however, when you listed an as-is property in my market anyway, And it’s probate. 98% of the investors are buying.
They want that higher as-is price, but they figure it’s close to what the comps are and they don’t realize, wait a minute condition. What do you say when you’re presenting all those options? They’re going to come in wanting the higher price and that’s where I’m at with this guy.
Hey, if they have an attorney involved in the process of comps, you’re going to have to list the property. Regardless if they’re not the decision-maker and they’re leaning on it’s the father-in-law rule in real estate. If you’re showing a buyer houses by the properties, I’m I only list properties. I don’t buy them as an investor.
That’s your first mistake. I’m just being honest I’m going, to be honest with people. That’s your first mistake you need to pivot. I’ve written a course, not meaning to. I wrote a magazine, book that I send out resumes and it’s just blossom into everything I do for appointments.
You got to start being an investor. I love listings myself, but you have to start looking at, maybe wholesaling properties. Yes, they want the most money, but most people are concerned about the timeline. Yeah, there’s that too. Cause that’s been the experience, especially with my last ones.
I told them about how they could get it renovated and make $200,000 more. They didn’t care, they just want, I don’t care. Unfortunately, they don’t care and I’ve lost was an investor. And I am an investor too. It’s just I’m not picking up the probates. I’m just listing them.
But I hear what you’re saying. If they can get a cash offer and to get it sold fast, the majority of the time they’ll take it. But they want that cash offer to be higher than 70% of ARV minus repairs. That’s fine. Find buyers that pay. And those are your rental buy and hold, they’ll pay 86% of ARV, 90% ARV.
I’m going to sell a few to Bruce. Yeah. Chad told me that a while back. He’s like, you need your buy hold investors because most of my investors are a hundred percent and I got rid of all my flippers and wholesalers on my list when he said that. So I took action immediately and I got it down to 52 investors that I work with solely, and they’re not always ready to buy a house.
I get 1, 2, 3, 4 people that will go out and look at a property, but they know when I send them something, it’s a good deal. You can find a buyer in the propstream and need to find them at the trustee sales, all that stuff you can find. ListSource. I have a few, but, that’s your job, Nina.
I want you to work on that for the next 30 days. And build your buyer’s list. Buy hold lists. Not to put you on spot. How many listings have you taken this year? Three. Okay. I’m putting you on the spot that sucks. I’ve got to get more listings. Then you got to get more wholesales. But the thing is with my brokerage, I’m not supposed to wholesale.
Ah, find another broker.
It’s your business. It’s your money. It’s your wealth. You need to start building your wealth. Not someone else’s. Get out of that mindset. I’m sorry. No, you can be brutal with me. It’s all good. I don’t mind it comes from love. I don’t know you, I’ve never talked to you, Nina, but it comes from love. I hear you.
I don’t find that way with people I’ve coached. So that’s all good. Okay. And that’s just me. I know that I was missing a huge opportunity. I subscribed to all the leads back in 2014. Didn’t do anything for two years. I started to rewrite the scripts.
I’ve tried everything. And then I was giving money to people to fix up their houses, to get the listing. Cause I thought I wanted to be a listing agent. I gave someone close to $24,000 and they got mad at me because of the ceiling fan, I changed out. They didn’t want me to throw away their kids, Disney world, a ceiling fan that looked like it had 30 years of dust on it, but they wanted me to save it for them.
So then I switched, my wife was like saying, why are you putting money into other people’s houses when you can be buying them? changed everything for me. I just wanted to say, I hear you. I’ve been contemplating getting my broker’s license and setting up my own little shop where I pretty much can have the rule of oh yeah.
I could just put it. Yeah. Yeah. Do it’s beautiful. Do it. Where do you live? I’m in LA. Oh, okay, good. I want you to do it everybody on this call, you’ve got to start thinking about, making cash offers either assigning them to your investor clients, or you list them and you sell them to your investors, either way, you feel comfortable.
Either you take an easy sell on a listing. I hate to say easy, but as-is house, you’re going to list it below market value is going to sell pretty easily and you charge that investor, a buyer fee. Plus you have a listing fee and you could go in on a listing and go for a, I don’t want to say discount, but you charge the family one or 2% to list it because it’s an easy sale, but then you have the buyer clients that already signed up with you that will pay you a commission, so you make five or 6% on everything you do.
How to go on a cash appointment at a probate property for wholesaling real estate
David, I have a question. I have your phone course. I’m doing that, but not all of it yet, but is that taught somewhere in that? Because to me, it’s so confusing. What’s confusing is the wholesale part. Yes. Yes. Just the appointments, you know how to go on a cash appointment.
I have 24 videos done and yeah, it’s This is going to be the largest section of my course, and they’re going to be five to 15-minute videos. So it’d be easy to watch one a day or something, hate to say this, but I didn’t realize how good I was on appointments and trying to train somebody to pay attention to the little red flags people, position themselves on an appointment, and to pivot. You have to know either to buy the house on the appointment or to take the listing. You could lose the whole deal by not having the right pacing.
And that’s a lot of asking permission on the appointment. I got a referral for probate and they didn’t even know I was a probate agent They just asked me if I would take the listing. I’m the only agent that answered the call that day. He called three agents. I was number three, it’s part of the Google local ads.
And I looked at the house. They told me what price they wanted. They said it appraised for one 90. I called the guy back, said, Hey, look, if it’s in rough shape, may I ask to buy it because I want to buy a house in this area. And he said I don’t see a problem with it. He’s the, he was the nephew of the estate.
He wasn’t benefiting. He was just trying to find a good agent for the family. I met the stepmother or the sister that was selling the property. I made her offer at 159 as it is right on the spot I broke down. We got on a conference call with the other brother and they told me if I would do 162, they had signed the offer.
So I told him 1 bought the house.
Should you double-close on a wholesale deal when probate investing?
I assigned that one to an investor, a flipper. You double closing and no, Nope.
Yeah. I was wondering about that. My rule, if it was over a $15,000 assignment, I would double close it, but then you look at the fees, the funding, it takes about $4,500 your money. That’s not too good. So just put the wholesale on that letter, buddy. sometimes people balk at you.
If you have a wholesale fee of 40 grand. But I, the largest wholesale fee I’ve done was $41,000 and that was in January.
David introduces his Pivot Agent real estate course and probate book marketing piece
Hey David, I’m Pam from Idaho. Just real quick. So do we have access to that or is this for people that have signed up for your course?
Yeah, I’m selling it for $695. And of course, I’m going to go up once I finish on that initial price, but I’m what I’m going to commit to is you have access to this Google drive everything now, I’m going to explain everything in screen videos to everybody, but I’m also putting a book of everything. So you’ll be shipped that as well. So it’s going to be pretty, just give me a little bit of time. I’m developing it. So it’s a relatively lower price right now and I have to sell you guys on it, but I’m pretty proud of it.
I’m going through all these and making videos of everything. Let’s see, so the appointment then I put how numbers work.
When you sell more than six houses a year, you want to keep track of your numbers and where that comes from. So I’ll show you CTE real quick. I hope this is a beneficial call. I’m just like I normally do just all over very,
It’s not opening so well. CTE is an Excel sheet on steroids. If you go on his Facebook page, look up Calvin merging, and just add to the group. You’ll see, he’s doing amazing things with Excel, where you get, you can put it in the house you’re selling and you put in the number. The source and then it just keeps track of all your closings and your commissions and your transaction costs.
It’s really neat. So the same idea with house flipping, we could go over that. If you want to the net sheet, I’ll go over that with y’all guys.
Probate marketing ideas: Setting up probate letters, CRM email drips, video texts, handwritten cards, and personalized gift cards
So David does this include a CRM for probate leads? I use Sierra interactive it’s $400 a month, but when you’re thinking about the lifetime value of your database. And that’s what I love to talk to you guys about. If I stress it enough, if you don’t have a CRM, you need something here.
I paid Sierra close to $20,000 to have their website in this CRM. Now they charge a monthly fee and it’s cloud-based. So to give you an idea, it’s, everybody’s contributing knowledge and making it better, they constantly make it better.
You request a feature, but you don’t have to build anything. That’s what I’m saying. I bought into CRMs where you have to program, this Zapier this do this, and yeah, you have to build some action plans out,
but Sierra is my CRM of choice and I would stress that you buy into it. So would you suggest that we wait until we outgrow the all the leads CRM or if you’re new, like me go into this and also probably get off the LionDesk CRM. Lion desk is fine too. You just got to have your action plans in place, because it’s not about you being new.
It’s about you having two to five people a day added to your day. It’s just if you had SEO completed or if you’re running Google ads, you would have certain people coming to your database, where do they go? And what do you do with them when they’re in there? Most agents forget about them after the first or second call.
So when I talked to somebody on probate, I automatically add them to all these are action plans. Like someone will subscribe to condos downtown, and I have 18 emails that I’ve written and it’s not difficult. It’s just 18 emails that go out of different communities in that downtown area. It’s the same principle on the probate action plan, 34 activities. Every 21 days, I want to either text them but I have reminders in there for me to call probate leads again. Are you doing the video text yet? Which I got out it, they don’t have to push a link or anything.
it shows up on their phone and if they push the number. They just released that on Sierra. So I have not played with it, but that’d be, perfect for what we’re doing because we want to keep them nice and short, but keep our face in front of them.
But what we could do, remember people inheriting a property in probate, or if they have a distressed property, they just want to know that you’re not out to take advantage of. And the nice thing about this video is if you do it once, you used the same one, so look good for one day, shoot a decent video and you use that same one over and over again. It’s the same principle. You just want to stay in touch with them, you want a system to remind you when to touch base. If you don’t have market updates, you don’t have emails, make sure it reminds you to send them a text message that’s personal or sends them a task for you to call.
The first thing we do when we put somebody in, my first task is for my mom, Barbara Newton, to send our probate resume. And that’s a group of these three magazines that we send. She writes a little handwritten note on the sticky on it. And for $2 and 30 cents, they get all this in the mail and they don’t throw it away.
They may not even open this thing, read it at all, but it remains in their file for probate. And I’m the thickest thing in their file. I guarantee you, but then they start getting all this helpful information. Like I, I have an attorney video that I interviewed him about a muniment of title. Email two, probate resume. So I’m checking to make sure they received the book. The book. And the postage total is costing I think it’s two 30. My mom puts down. So she just bills me then to the month and tells me I over $400.
And then she reminds me 18 times in a row.
Do you know what I mean? But then they’re in my system. I have their email, their cell phone number, cause I’ve talked to them and I give them all that. They can’t deny that I’m going to be someone to call. But I can’t tell you honestly if I’m getting, I’m not getting everyone call me back, I have to call them.
Let’s see here on Sierra I have 159 people in probate So all these people are on some type of drip or I’m calling them all the time. Where would you suggest the video come in, if you’re going for a 12-month cycle of marketing that personal touch what phase the first letter’s gone out?
Telephone calls have been attempted. Where does that quick text video go? About a day or two after you send a letter that way they associate it and make sure you hold up the letter I say, Hey, I sent you this letter, reference the letter. Do you want everything to match? So they can’t deny when they see your stuff.
Like my colors purple, everything they give from me is purple. That’s my brand, people know me by the purple agent and forward, but that’s also TCU college color. So
I just want to share one thing. I happened to have a, I don’t know if anybody knows this, but Starbucks does personalized gift cards with your logo on it and information. And it just happened to have some extra ones in there only for $5 in, I had two very good people yesterday with stories and I’m sending them a card to have, tell them, have a cup of coffee on me, that’s handwritten and I’ll let you know how it goes.
I think they’re going to be very responsive based on their situation. And our conversation is, there are seven children and there’s a story behind it. So I really think she’ll enjoy uh, have a cup of coffee on me, right? We send those after we go on the appointment. So after I meet them face to face, if they do something with us or not, we send them a Starbucks gift card in the mail.
That’s funny. Cause that’s what I do. And they responded very well. Oh, hell yeah. It’s reciprocity city or something. I can’t remember the word. Brand it with your logo. So instead of using my business card, I’ll buy $500 worth of gift cards and I’ll keep a hundred dollars for myself. So it’s a tax write-off to, oh, I just feel like that this gets them it’s in their wallet. It’s got my name on it. all works. It’s just like Saturday. You don’t have to call on Saturdays, but it’s better.
It’s more effort. Absolutely. And the more you could brand and be in front of somebody and have your picture in front of them is a game-changer always, so Dave, you said you’re doing that after the appointment. Selena, what are you sending the card out? I had a great conversation yesterday with two people.
Really motivated me. It was only my second-day calling and these two people, I just feel like sending this handwritten card today. I have a cup of coffee on me. But they’ll get it in three days. I’m set to recall them back each in three weeks. And in the meantime, they’ll receive another letter, their second letter in that time.
So they’ll have perfect two, four touches from me before I actually call them again. Okay. So you’re sending it in response to the conversation. It, yes. Yes. This is Dave for $5 appointment. Got it. I’ve got to have a good feeling for it and plus, realize I’m only working with 64, you know, the little different, I assume I’m not going to be able to be as aggressive or have this kind of time later.
I hope to, but yeah, I can put everything into my whopping 64, 64-year leads. That’s all I got. And I already personally scrubbed them to I know who died in a nursing home and where they died and if they own property and I’ve put deeds on houses. But just imagine you’re five years deep now and you have 1500 people follow up with how are you going to do that?
I’ll make phone calls and I’ve already got an attorney paralegal ready to pick up.
Setting up your probate marketing system for automation and scaling
Perfect do enter delegated. So how can we make that easier for everybody else on the call? I know you’re a bad a, but for everybody else on the call, it’s just, you gotta have some kind of system to follow people. You’ve got to, that’s why that CRM, if you’re adding 64 people or two people, there’s gotta be a reminder for you to do something with them every 21 days or based on the conversation.
If it’s seven days, it’s seven days, and always cut their time in half, whatever they tell you, if they tell you they’re a month away, they’re 14 days away from making a decision, get out there. And that. I can tell you that all the leads CRM, the way they’ve set up their CRM is great.
It’s just not powerful enough. So I’m having to run the dual from them to export it to lion desk. But it’s great. No. It’s only for downloading. I only download it. And then I organize if they’re out of state, if they have a house and they’re local, it’s a house that within an hour driving distance based on zip codes.
And then if it’s a spouse, so the spouse gets on, the spouse gets delayed for up a year to 18 months. I’m not worried about them. The out-of-state probates are the most important to call. They’re the most difficult ones. So they’re going to be in the system a lot longer. And then the ones that are local with the house to sell, you could drive door, knock them, or.
Send them mail. Those are your mailing list. Really? The local leads are going to do something because they’re going to find a local realtor. The out-of-state leads are probably more of a phone call but don’t take me for on my, I’ve purchased $10,000, the leads this year, and I’ve only done 23 deals.
It’s not easy. Yeah. But how many of those are you touching? I know you’re doing your drip campaigns, that’s a lot of people to be reaching out to.
You already have your, of your lead gen passive, because if it’s passive, then it makes sense. You don’t have as high a conversion. It is passive. There are only certain people that raise their hands.
Yeah. I have my drip campaigns, but I just literally, for the most part, do a weekly check-in with everyone, whether it’s call, text, or email and I can send video my CRM, I can see as intelligently. lot of it’s automated.
So for me, it’s just once a week makes sense. Because the more you’re in front of them, the more they’re going to convert with you, it’s top of mind. but have you only done three probate listings? Is that what three probate actual listings are, but I can tell you that most of my probates are what you just described.
They’re six months to a year out before there. That’s fine. I’ve been a probate specialist for a while,
and then my clients were like, you should be an attorney. I figured, okay. Maybe I’m good at this. And I met bill and bill was like, Hey, come and work with me. So yeah. What are you seeing in terms of conversion for the once-a-week touch? Are you seeing a statistic on that?
That’s a good question. So as far as it’s about responsiveness and right now, for the ones that I’ve had an engagement with, they’re responsive, they’ll say, yeah, we’re still waiting on this. Oh yeah, we’re looking into this, and again, my follow-up is, Hey, I checked your case record.
I see that this is happening. And I know your court dates on the 10th. Is there anything else that you needed from me? You know, Hey, make sure you have this. I want to send you this, by the way. I don’t know if you have this, something to consider. So I’m always bringing them value. So to answer your question most of those, as I said, they’re six months to a year out, maybe less than a year now. And that’s all because of COVID and the court delays, to be able to list.
Probate leads, tax sales, and pre-foreclosure leads ROI: Lead sources, data quality, and list providers
Are you getting an ROI on your probate list? I don’t buy ATL. I get my leads from an attorney and his team scrubs them and I pay 50 bucks a month and he gets everything. He’s got all kinds of data in there, similar to all the leads.
Yeah. I find the best return with the most expensive leads, which is all the leads. I just find that paying, anywhere from $2 to $3 a lead, just makes me call them better.
So I, and the money’s there, so I don’t mind spending it, but I will say that I think that they’re scrubbing of the phone numbers and all the leads had a very high good phone number return, or quality now. Yeah. I don’t know what it is, but they, they tried.
75% of my leads, I’ll get five and six numbers in, five columns and every single one of them says DNC. So for me, and that was, I know you’re saying Dave, you’re like, forget about it, just call them. But my point is that even with some of those numbers, they’re just bad numbers.
So there still is a good percentage of them that are just bad numbers there. We’re only going to get a hell to 10%. So that’s what you’re building a business on the other. My wife does letters. She does not go after the probate cause she doesn’t like dealing with those, but she goes after foreclosures and tax sales.
And she gets about a 1% call ratio and she sends a thousand letters a week. Wow. she picked up two listings this week. One’s a million dollar listing that’s on the tax sale and then she’s buying a property for $30,000. So it’s 10% calls, 1% letters. So that’s an inbound call ratio.
You would use the outbound. Oh, for letters. It’s 1% after three or four months. It’s this ridiculous. I don’t pre-foreclosure Dave yeah. And pre-foreclosure is, it’s always a hot topic, but the margins are always different because people don’t want to sell their houses. They’re losing their house. So their perspective is that they don’t want to get rid of it.
So they’re going to wait until the last day and then file bankruptcy and then eat up their equity. So the best deals I find. Now that my whole business model is going out to distressed is the tax sales that are behind on taxes, probate, and then driving for dollars in the neighbors. When you go on appointments and add people to like a deal machine app or a driving app where you could click the house and attitude, if you see a distressed house and then you mail them, you know how to get a notice of default, like for the pre-foreclosures like the notice of default or notice of sale.
I’m trying to figure out how to get that, man. Do you have to get that from a lender or what? Because I don’t think that goes through the county. Does it,
Its title24/7 can you can also get them from foreclosures daily and I have a code you can use to get a discount or just find someone local that does it we have Rodney report and they do a Dallas report. and Here in Georgia, they have a website, Georgia probate records.com that gets all the rural counties.
It’s 40 counties. So basically he just, yeah, he kinda got it doing what pulling from there. Basically. It’s mostly rural, which isn’t great. It excludes all the Metro Atlanta counties. I’m going a lot. I’m getting a lot of records yeah.
It’s working well. We haven’t talked to them for about a month and a half. Have you done any deals? I’ve just got, I’ve been calling a little bit, but I got to I finally got a good cold call or get English speaking Filipino lady call him for me. So she’s getting a lot of, she’s going to get a bit of leads.
Yeah, she sounds very we’ll get any new deal in August. I didn’t get any new deals in August, September, so I was a little worried. I didn’t know what was going on. And then it blew up. We got in October, I wrote eight offers and then regular listings too. So we got almost 11 deals on the board, just in the last 30 days.
So it was weird. Excellent.
Building rapport and standing out from other investors when you make cash offers/wholesale offers
David, I want you to expound a little bit on how you’re making offers. I know you’re going for a point, you’re trying to get appointments and you’re not making offers on the phone. And you said you’re given a range. How does that look when you get out there and you are making an offer say on the wholesale side of the listing side and it’s not so much about making the offer.
The house is asking the right question. Asking the timeline questions, the amount of money they want, just getting to know them, having that rapport. I just made an offer on a house for a house today and it’s between me and one other investor. And he said out loud, he’s I don’t trust this other investor.
She came into the house, she started blowing it up, saying all these things wrong with it. So that tells me that I better not go to that house and be like, oh, this is shitty. You’ve got to ask. And he’s calling me bro brother, and bud. So important, man. Yeah. Most investors will go to a house and be there 10 to 15 minutes and they won’t build rapport on the relationship side. It’s great. It’s a hundred percent needed to have a CRM to build a database. But if you’re not building that relationship with these people, you’re not gonna get deals. they’re gonna think you’re taking advantage of them. Or they’re just gonna go to the next person that is calling them that is building a relationship with them. Cause I’ve won deals. I probably won deals 10, $20,000 below other offers, but they thought that I was more honest about the repairs that were needed and I didn’t make a big deal of it. I just said, these are the numbers. This is what I have to buy it for.
But I’ve lost houses too. I’m not perfect either. You can only be so good. You’ve got a lot, you’ve got a lot of experiences in agents, you know how to deal with it. You don’t have to deal with sellers and you’re getting the old developer. I remember when I first got into real estate in 2006, I was buying every sales book because I was worried I wasn’t going to be a good sales guy.
And it’s just reading those books going on appointments, failing. You’re going to learn this stuff. It’s beautiful.
But James man, you got to make those calls. I told you and I say is important, but, and I say,
cause that relationship I’m so good, man. I’m so much, you’re so much better than a VA. I’ve called I’m calling and I’ll call for two hours. Then I’ll get three leads that are going to sell in the next six months. That’s great. As a VA is only going to get 25% of that 10%, no matter how good that English is, no matter how so the money’s not, the best person to call.
And I told Eve, this is she still on, on here. She’s the perfect age to call these, not to call you out on your age. I’m just saying, you told me you’re like you telling me you were like 21 or so
Evie’s the perfect day for probate and anybody between 40 and 65 or 70 years old. We’re perfect for probate because we’re dealing with the people in that age group that are selling their parents’ homes. Not that a 21-year-old, can’t like James, we’re just kidding James, but I’m not saying that they’re not these wholesalers that go to these weekend meetups and they think they’re going to be investors.
We’re just having different conversations with people. Once you get past the avoidance factor and you get into a conversation with people about buying their home or listing it, but you have to listen for those clues of what direction I should go by asking, you got to ask questions. You got to lead the conversation by asking.
The highest value question that I’ve found an entry in entering the uh, the phone call is, noting that I see they died in August or something along those lines. And as you’re doing it, I know how you feel. I know some mourning goes along with it cause I’ve lost people too.
And, And I understand how you feel where are you at right now with all that. And all of a sudden, all of a sudden you become a person rather than I’m interested in you got a house in there that you’re going to sell. It’s just basically getting that connection and saying I’ve lost, loved ones as well.
And I know there’s a period of mourning and remorse and bereavement that you have to go through using those kinds of words, mourning, bereavement, a period that you have to get through. And sometimes you get stuck in that and frozen, and can’t do anything. Where are you at with all that?
What can I take off of your plate? How can I help you? That’s exactly right. Wow. Yep. And that goes back to just being open to a conversation with them. You don’t want to have an hour-long conversation with somebody you want to get to the point within 10 to 15 minutes. And get them into a database, but you got to have those conversations yep.
Short sale for probate property with a reverse mortgage with notice of default
We have a question that brings in foreclosure as well as probate. And I wanna make sure I’m right to just take it off my list. It’s in probate the property has a notice of default on it, with reinstatement of 382,000, it’s a reversed mortgage and the reverse mortgage is 1,000,009, 1,095,000.
And the Zillow estimate on the house is 779,000. I’m just, there’s no opportunity. I dump this, right? Yeah. That’s good. Maybe not. Yeah. Can I just really quickly speak to it? Cause I take this, please. Cause I would dump that one. Okay. I’ve taken a reverse mortgage course with some guys who are the most popular Ryan and Robert.
They sell reverse mortgages. So even though that’s the reverse mortgage amount that may have been the original reverse mortgage amount, it has been, it was July 6, 20, 20 that the loan was taken out. And I looked at the deed of trust. Okay. So it can’t be much less than that. So the vet, they’re underwater on it, which is surprising because, in reverse mortgages, you have to have at least 40% equity before they even give you the mortgage.
And then they can only give you a certain amount of that remaining, amount that you have available. So I’m surprised it’s so high, but bottom line, the worth of reverse mortgage. When heirs inherit the property, they have up to one year before they have to refinance or sell the property to pay off the debt.
So the reverse mortgage continues to get paid and it’s paid out of the equity in the house. How will? If it’s in default, it sounds like it’s because it’s underwater. So you’d have to try to get ahold of the reverse mortgage servicer, which is very difficult because they’re usually three deep, but before you can get to them, but as long as it’s been it’s within a year, then even though it’s in default, if you list the property and you get an offer, you can submit that before it’s in escrow.
You can submit that to the trustee for foreclosures, and they’ll put a pause on the sale. So they won’t, even if they’re in 21 days in default and you show them, you have a listing agreement and you have an offer on the table, they can stop the foreclosure sale, which is 21 days in California from after default.
So there are a few of the things you have to do to check you to help these people out. The first is to contact the trustee and find out their rules for stopping the trustee sale. If it’s that. Contact the reverse mortgage company and the servicer to see how much time they have left before it’s due, then go back to the seller and say, this is your situation.
It may end up being a short sale, but let’s make sure and find out what that what the trustee sale dates are and what the servicers’ dates are in terms of allowing for the time before it has to be paid. Okay. So what you’re saying is the opportunity here is a short sale. I know where it is and I do foreclosures.
I own a foreclosure company. I don’t usually do residential. I do large commercials, but I do foreclosures in nine states. Okay. So the opportunity is the short sale and to explain to the personal representative, they would have no liability. They could let it go and not be bothered with a short sale.
It’s not their credit. It’s not there. It’s going to hurt the estate. So if the estate has other assets in bank accounts, any other businesses, the reverse mortgage could file a claim against the estate for the remaining balance of what’s owed. I just did one of those short-sale reverse mortgage, and there was nothing in there for the estate at all.
We had to go to court and do probate just to get it, to have authority to sell it. And we had made it to the bank. It was a lot of work though. So I don’t want it to be a top of it. Yeah. But I would say for the business of it Selena, and you, I’m sure you aren’t, you, I know you’re super experienced in this, at least helping them get through this process means they become a referral past client.
Yes. But on that note, that’s going to hurt them. By being in the mix on a deal that you can’t buy or list long’s long haul. The daughter felt real bad. She didn’t want the parents’ home to sit there. So I went out of the way for her. She was an old friend of mine. I have the time. So I guess now that you’ve given me this, I obviously can speak to the foreclosure.
If I can get them on the phone, maybe I can get a short sale out of this or something for them. Do you have the trustees number eight? Yeah, I know that we’re friendly competitors. Perfect. Then I find out exactly how much time you have, but I know that from the notice of default, they’ve got to wait three months before they can do the notice to sale.
And then it’s another, we ask usually estimate 30 days. So the notice of default was just filed on September 20. I know a little window. I know the timeframe I’ve pulled all the documents, I’ve reviewed, printed, everything that everything. So it’s really this value issue that we’re, that is the challenge.
You said it was seven 50 on, Zillow has it at 7 79, the original loan, 1,950,000 and they’re delinquent to reinstate it, which we know they’re not going to do what the 380,701.67. And that’s with interest through September 23rd. So that’s a big chunk of change, well, let’s be hopeful with the fact that we know Zillow’s algorithm is all jacked up anyway.
So, But hope. I mean, you know, When people are in those situations, I’m the type of person I help them out. And if helping them is going to create a relationship. Or referral business, I’m willing to do it. I just have to make sure my systems are in place so that it’s not using, like Dave said, not using up a bunch of time, that I may not get paid on.
But yeah, I mean, all this process for me is to make my life easier. So I’m not trying to solve everybody’s problem. I want to buy houses as an investor now, and I want to buy distressed property. So if it’s difficult, I’m going to pass the short, sell on to somebody. I went through that nightmare in 2010 and 11, 12.
I don’t want to do those. Let me throw this in. I’d done a short sale just two years ago, and I had the same attitude that you did David about I don’t want to do this cause I did that in 12 and 13 and 14 short sales just became a nightmare, but I found that blue anchor that’s out of Florida has handled all of that stuff.
And they just said, you collect it, send it to me. We’ll send it to you at $1,500 to the sales price that the buyer is going to get a deal and we’ll handle all the paperwork. You just take it to closing and get it closed locally. That was awesome. Awesome. Relief of just a collection and forwarding the paperwork and that’s Jim Jim’s wife that runs the blue anchor foreclosure.
They do national foreclosure and they know who to contact in some of these Obscure servicers and getting to the right party and getting through that. That’s awesome. It’s all worth it in the long run, so I just don’t have the patients much anymore these days.
I know. Well, I need the experience anyway. Even if I fall on my face, I mean, I don’t selling real estate is new to me. And residential is really out of my, so I’m going to go for it and I’ll let you know how it goes. That sounds good.
Improving your probate marketing strategy and increasing your ROI
Ronnie. Hang on, Rodney. Has it? Hey so I’m finding just I’m in the New York area and I’m spending about 10,000 a year. I making enough I’m making money. So that 10,000 is covered, let’s say. But in addition, I think the amount of leads that I get and the I’m just not hitting it home as much as I should.
And I’m trying to figure out what is missing in my whole strategy. You know, I have this good CRM. I have the tasks I follow up. I know there’s a lot of competition everywhere, but there’s a lot of competition here. You know, We’re also competing with lawyers who try to make deals on their own because then they make extra money.
So that’s our competition also. So it’s, I am co trying to cozy up to the lawyers. I met someone today, for instance, there’s a lot of multiple heir situations where they’re trying to make a ton of money and or just come out with money. And the broker fee is a big hurdle. I also have investors that I hook them up with, but investors are calling them and offering the investor amount that I can offer them.
As well. And I’m even offering investors where I don’t, they don’t pay a broker fee because I’ll get it on the investor side when they flip it. But I’m not sure what is missing that I’m not making the income that I probably should in, in terms of my investment. And I’m making the calls.
I have an ISA she’s making calls. So I guess, you know, I need some help without going into, you know, I don’t want to take over the phone call and tell you how I’m doing, spend hours on everything that I’m doing. But I don’t know. I don’t know what. How many deals have you done with probate this year with the leads?
Let me see. It’s, surrogates court around here was closed and I don’t even know if I have one that closed. I was tinted this year because I was working with some buyers that saved me in terms of the years’ whole earnings.
So I can’t even say for sure that this year I had a probate sale that I got closed. I have some pipeline you’re spending $10,000 on the ATL leads and the probate plus. So you got good data and that’s not including the marketing. I’m sending the letters out. Okay. Price points here are like, anywhere from 500,000 to upwards of, it could be 6 million.
Of course the 6 million properties, usually they have a broker or, a fancy lawyer, that’s gonna recommend a broker. So we’re looking, at anywhere from 500 to 2 million, I’d say so yeah, I guess if I get one deal that will more than makeup with it, cause it’ll be a $30,000, $40,000 commission.
But in the number of time deals though, to pay yourself back. So how much do you need seven deals really to pay yourself back for what you’re saying? So I’m not getting seven deals. And the 12 one cycle you should at least get one every month, every other month I need. So what’s going on?
What are you? Are you calling them yourself? Some, yeah. That’s where it is. No, I mean, I, I do a pretty good job, and then I just got an ISA and she’s pretty good too. What’s the, I say his personality. She’s a great voice. Amazing her personality. I don’t care. She’s learning. She’s a very sweet personality.
I like, what do you mean? And in a conversation that she ordering at the dinner. Or is she letting you order for her? She can, but she’s getting more. I just, she’s a month in, she’s really getting more confident with the materials right now, but she’s done a good job so far. Does she have any real estate background, a minor is it a friend of yours?
Oh, she was like the girl at the store who convinced people to open up credit cards, and she was really good at alright, so let’s trainable. Yeah. Make sure you do a personality test. If your personality is DIC, D I S C. If it’s a, if she’s a high S that’s where she’s comfortable, it’s where she’s going to want to be there.
They want to be standardized. So that’s a good farmer, ISA. That’s a good follow-up person. my recommendation on hiring an ISA has to do the weakness that you have. If it’s your weakness, you got to hire an ISA for your weakness, you’re a driver. Your personality is a driver. I can tell your voice.
It’s your drive. The conversation. Every time I asked you a question, you overtalk me, that’s fine. You just need to make the initial phone call. You need to get somebody in your system. That’s a farmer. That’s going to follow up with these people and get you to the appointment or at least set a call for you to call them about they’ll have an appointment.
That’s where you’re messing up at. I can tell you, there’s so many that I miss out on. Oh. And is there a way to do a deep dive into my strategy and figure out like, exactly, like, so you’re saying get the ISA who’s a better ISA or, when cause, or make more time that I should do the calls or are you training the ISA?
Yes. I sent her the links to the call to the calls, um, gone over those. Yeah. I need to spend 30 minutes a day for the next 90 days calling each other. You need to commit to her. If you want to use her, you need to commit to her people hire ISAs is to get out of it, get back to avoiding the phone call and that’s not…
you’re trying to get, you’re trying to make money off of somebody that has no idea about how to buy a house, sell a house, have a normal conversation with somebody. And then when they mentioned the idea of selling it as is they’re bypassing it. Cause they are only focused on setting an appointment. Okay.
everybody does the same thing. That’s why I got onto James. He’s not on the call anymore, but he wanted to hire an ISA and I was like, you got to hire to your weakness. And if you don’t, I don’t like to follow up people. So if I would hire an ISA, it would be someone to make my followup calls and remind them that I’m in business.
But my CRM does it for me. So I don’t need that anymore. I don’t mind making the initial phone call because I multitask. I do other things while I’m letting the phone ring. And I know I’m only going to talk to about nine people a day. If I call it a hundred and then there’s only two on that list that I’ll talk.
We’ll have a conversation with I’m okay. With that for the two hours I’m reading email or doing something else on my screen or looking at comps for a house and I’m a buy and then someone picks up, I go into conversation. Okay. You’re trying to, you’re spending the money on the leads.
I would say. You’re not calling them more consistent for the initial call for yourself or following up with them. And then they’re selling the house. And you’re just finding out later on at the sell of the house by, and to find an ISA that is good. It’s not easy. I went through 18 people and we were trying to get them on appointments too which, an ISA’s job is only to create the conversation or to follow up inside sales agent. That’s what it’s referred to inside. You are the appointment setter and you control your schedule. So you need to get on the phone and call these people and get them into a database and follow up with them.
And you hire someone to follow up. If that’s your weakness or you have a CRM, that will tell you when to call them and you have to follow. I have 250 overdue tasks. Those are 250 calls. Look, your business, you ain’t doing the work. I, by next Tuesday, get those calls caught up to 50 done and it’s draining the calls or don’t know it’s exciting.
Can use different words. That’s exciting. You’re right. I hear you. What are you going to do by next to a point where. It’s all referral. And it’s hard with probate because it’s like a one-time job. And then a lot of them live out of state and they’re not referring you.
And so it’s, you do want to get to a place where you don’t have to sit home and make these calls because it can even if you love them. My biggest two assignments came from probate referrals. That $41,000 assignment fee was from another probate that I helped. Two years ago, they referred me to, she said, David we’ll help you out.
And it wasn’t even she inherited the property and they didn’t want, it was a rental. They destroyed it. I went there and bought it. So you’re saying I need to make more calls a hundred percent. Yep. And get you train your ISA every day, 30 minutes a day. Your competency is in the conversations, those conversations.
And that competency will make you enjoy those calls. I can tell you that there’s a team out here who does probate, a husband and wife team, and they have a full team and we were on a call. This is my previous brokerage, and we were on a call one morning. And she said I’m trying to hire two new ISA that got over 800 leads.
And she said the problem is that no, one’s qualified enough. And it’s gonna take me at least a year just to train them a year in probate. they have a specific system and they know exactly the conversations they’re having because they have that level of competency. You’ll, won’t feel like it’s hard or that it’s difficult or that it’s exhausting when you become so competent in your conversations, you’re going to feel like you want to have those conversations.
That’s where you want to do. I feel I have a feeling you’re going to be very successful with it though. Good job, Nina. Boom. Now take your advice. Get on the phone. Yes. Dave is no joke. You are just no joke. You hit it hard, but look, get your stuff done. Thank you, Dave. I appreciate your welcome, David.
More about David Pannell’s Pivot Agent real estate prospecting course
I have a question for you. Are you willing for just kidding, I didn’t ask any two weeks you willing to, for some fee with your proprietary system, with Sierra to sell that piece of it. Yeah. That’s what the course is. So I’m gonna, I’m going to work hard this next couple of weeks is to make videos of the emails I’m sending out.
And some of the videos I’ve made, there are video testimonials of us completing probate. It’s just different things that keep me in front of them. So yeah, a hundred percent pay the 6 95. You’ll have access to everything I’m doing. It’s M I, my goal is to do 50 probates a year now. I used to go after a hundred in 2019, we did two, 120 transactions.
that was a year I did 47 probates. That’s when Chad was doing the interviews with me, cause we were, we had more calls on the phone and we just back to back appointments is exciting. But that was a lot of work and we bought 37 foreclosures that year, too. And then we had a baby in 2020 and stopped.
So we’re getting back to this year. So you’ll have access to everything. So that’s a good way to end this. It’s about an hour and a half. Does anybody have a quick question that I can help you with? I had a wasp land on my desk. He’s becoming a buddy. Thank you. Does anybody have any questions?
Do you have a monthly payment option on your course? No, not yet. I’m probably going to do something like a role play thing. It doesn’t really say everything that’s in it. Like in the appointment, things we go for, cash offer questions, cash offer process, price anchoring, trial closes, setting the stage, best practices, mindset, everything you need for an appointment.
We have home valuation tools, it’s called pivot agent. I’ve changed the name a few times. My members are going crazy, but I want you to think about being an investor too.
So like for in here appointments, have all these different things to talk about to help you You know, Everybody teaches mindset, but it’s just the way you ask questions on the appointment, then you have to be open to now for your letters. Are the, are you following the All The Leads letters or is this your design?
Cause you said, you mentioned earlier that you edited some of those letters. You made it your own. In a letter, it doesn’t even matter. What’s in the letter, it just matters that you send something. So in my thing, I have four that I use, but again, it’s about follow-up and just sending them something in the mail.
So they remember that you are you’re there to help them. So I’ve gotten down to just handwritten notes. So this is completely what I send. If I see a task come up, I write them a handwritten note in an envelope, nothing too deep anymore. And it has the city’s real estate on it. And I put, Hey, this is David Pannell, just following up with you. We talked, blah, blah, blah. And that works a hundred percent better than coming up with some crafty content on the letter. A hundred percent.
That’s a pretty nice CRM. There is bad-ass as I’ve been part of some other things, but, if you look up Sierra interactive they were, we were part of a real estate webmasters in the beginning. This was back in 2007. I got with Sierra in 2017. It’s four agents that own Sierra and they’re just programmers too.
And they programmed this whole thing. It’s amazing. Yeah. The one I have was designed by programmers and a couple of them were agents. But it looks like it does a lot of what my CRM does too. Just looks better. So again, these emails you don’t have to have when you’re thinking about a drip campaign for emails, it’s not so much what’s in the email, it’s just the constant reminder that you’re in business.
So this one just talks to, it talks about doing yard care professionals, your team, but again, it doesn’t amatter. The sequence is 21 days and then you have tasks in here to call. So it reminds you, so when you get 1500 people. You’re going to have random tasks come up that either reminds you to say the handwritten note, I usually send five or six of these a day.
Maybe more, some days I hate it when there’s 21 to do I hate it, but that’s, I used to have an assistant I don’t anymore. I’m looking to hire someone right now. I would rather have someone to help me with my CRM management than ISA. Cause I don’t, mind making the calls, my weakness is the follow-up.
Doing the tasks, doing the task and also my regular stuff and flipping a house. I got two houses and flipping you just get busy with life and I don’t want to work more than four or five hours a day now. So I’ve got to figure out how to get all that done in the morning and prospect. So you need a CRM manager.
And that would be, that’s what I say, ISA for farmer. If you get the personality of somebody that is very standardized, they will follow the rules of that follow-up system. And they won’t deviate from it. I, and the majority 96% of the population is I, is, our personalities are driven by, people liking us.
I don’t care if someone likes me or not. But most people want to be. So those are the ones that want to talk those and make good buyer’s agents. So you gotta be careful if you’re not running. If you don’t know your personality, you need to run a test and figure out. Okay. Yep. And your saboteurs, by the way, I’ll throw that out there.
Saboteurs. If you check out the positives, positive intelligence, the guy did a Ted talk on it and he has a whole little test. You can take online that looks at how your personality may have saboteurs that are affecting your ability to be successful in your business. Nice Carmine is his name very good.
Okay. Any other questions? David I do. I’m glad that you shared your experience. I’ve done the same thing. I’m here with my partner and off the Charlotte pans. And we’ve been, paying for things and haven’t done it.
We’re in Idaho. So we’re in a hot spot where it’s really busy we’re top of the nation right now for sales. So we’ve been legitimately busy, but we want to, we’re, I think we’re ready to step into this now. And so I feel like an impostor basically, cause I have the cute little certificate here in my office that says I’m a probate expert and the thing that fake it till you make it.
Yeah. The thing that we bring to the table too, I think as a team is going through the experience where you’d had to be PR or whatever. And we have gone through that with families and, and difficult experiences. And we’re both, I think our personalities help in that situation.
Cause we’re able to connect with people in a way, but that’s important. That’s important. And so that’s the feedback that we get from people. We have helped some people, not because of all the leads, but because those people have similar experiences, but they ended up being people that were directed to us and referred to us.
So my question is: Since it’s been so long since we’d gone through the course where would you say we start now? Like where do we, you need to take action? So in a goal over 90 days, you got to figure out how you’re going to start the process and start implementing people into a database. Because once you have the people in your database, you’re going to start working these deals and you’re going to have these clients call you.
So we have you know, signed up. So I have the probate list, I actually just got a lead list yesterday. And so should I just, go ahead and just call him, say, Hey, look I I purchased a list of probate files, be honest with them, and it was wondering if you needed any help, look up a circle, prospecting script, and use that for a probate script.
Just get on the phones, call them. What did you say? What script? Circle prospecting. It’s just neighborhood cold calling. wondering if they need help
and there are ones that are not going to need help. And there’s that one or two on the list of a hundred that are going to need help. And you got to go through the list to get those. You just do. I mean, I’ve been calling people for a year and a half that don’t still don’t answer my call after I call them initially.
That’s fine. I know they haven’t sold the house yet. I’m going to stay on them. Okay.
All right, guys, I hope y’all enjoyed it. I hope I helped y’all out. Very helpful. Thank you very much. Fantastic. Thank you, guys. All right, I’ll see. Y’all I may be hosting next week. I’ll, we’ll go over. We’ll dive into the appointments or something, but I’ll get with, y’all take it easy.
Bye. Okay. Thanks Dave.
About the Author
Katt is an expert in probate marketing and helps entrepreneurs build businesses in the probate space. She is the co-founder of the Estate Professionals Mastermind podcast, which has become the most widely-shared probate real estate podcast. She also writes training content for ProbateMastery.com and a weekly LinkedIn newsletter followed by over 9000 professionals. You can reach her on Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn.
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